M16 bolt problem

smootik · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:50 pm

yellow wrote:

Pffffff, just tried the bolt from the M635 in the M16 and that bolt DOES extract the carts.

Hmm, so the difference is most likely with the bolt. Maybe it still does not go forward as much as it should, so extractor does not have a chance to "push" on cartridge and slip over its rim to grab it.

Quote:

I'm actually starting to dislike this gun and if I were Marushin, I would be ashamed to sell such low quality stuff.

Everything's ok, that is step 3 in modelgun hobby:
1) find a model you like so much that you keep dreaming of actually having it

2) get the model, touch&feel it, be happy and satisfied

3) try to fire it, get increasingly disappointed and wish you never bought the model in the first place

4) gradually start to think "I am too harsh" and get back to liking the model

5) go back to step 1)

I went through this with many modelguns I have ;-D
Most work ok, some have their peculiarities, so far just one does not work at all (S&W Model 2 made from kit).

Now that I think of it, maybe that's why some of use never fire models ;-)

edit: grammar

Cerwyn · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:41 am

smootik wrote:

yellow wrote:

Pffffff, just tried the bolt from the M635 in the M16 and that bolt DOES extract the carts.

Hmm, so the difference is most likely with the bolt. Maybe it still does not go forward as much as it should, so extractor does not have a chance to "push" on cartridge and slip over its rim to grab it.

Quote:

I'm actually starting to dislike this gun and if I were Marushin, I would be ashamed to sell such low quality stuff.

Everything's ok, that is step 3 in modelgun hobby:
1) find a model you like so much that you keep dreaming of actually having it

2) get the model, touch&feel it, be happy and satisfied

3) try to fire it, get increasingly disappointed and wish you never bought the model in the first place

4) gradually start to thinking "I am too harsh" and get back to liking the model

5) go back to step 1)

I went through this with many modelguns I have ;-D
Most work ok, some have their peculiarities, so far just one does not work at all (S&W Model 2 made from kit).

Now that I think of it, maybe that's why some of use never fire models ;-)

Smootik's 5 steps to understand the Modelgun hobby is pretty much spot-on We've ALL been there, without a doubt. I'll bet there isn't a single member here that hasn't reached boiling point and wanted to throw a modelgun out of the window at least once.
So, yellow, you're not alone, we all know how you feel right now
This "Love / Hate" relationship we have with our modelguns is perfectly normal, we Love 'em when they manage to fire off a burst or a mag' full but Hate 'em with a passion when they won't manage a simple task like chambering a round without jamming.

Your 20rd mag' sounds like you've a problem with the feed lips' angle or possibly the follower is sticking as it travels up inside the mag's body.
Your 30rd mag works and feeds rounds properly doesn't it Compare the feed lips on both and try getting the 20 rounder to match.
Strip the mag, check the follower for any burrs or sharp edges. Smooth those out as necessary, lightly oil or apply a thin coat of grease inside the mag and reassemble. The follower needs to slide up the mag without any unavoidable friction.

If your still having problems, try the 30 rd mag follower in the 20... is there a difference then

Feed lips can make such a difference. Accidently dropping a mag on the floor can easily bend the lips out of shape, inserting a mag into a gun and banging it in with a slap of the hand can knock lips out of shape.
If the lips aren't angled correctly, the rounds won't sit right and, as you've said, the bolt can slip over the top, or push the round down till it hits the front of the mag, or miss the chamber entrance.

Don't despair, you're not alone

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.

yellow · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:01 pm

Here we are again after a long time Very Happy

Found the courage to take another look at the gun today and now it extracts the rounds!!! cheers

Only, if I hadn't disassembled the bolt of my M635, I wouldn't have possibly thought of this solution.
Kickback placed a very thin piece of plastic between the bolt housing and the extractor. That way, the extractor is pushed a little bit more to the center of the bolt (only 0.3mm !!!!), but clearly it was just the thing the gun needed!

Only problem remaining now is the 20 round mag. 30 round mag works great, but I don't get the 20 round mag feeding well. Think I already tried everything you can possibly try on a mag.

Cerwyn · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:24 am

Great to hear your extraction problems are sorted now Even better to hear you sound happier with your modelgun again

Hints and tips like this are invaluable, that 0.3mm thick strip of plastic has clearly worked perfectly.

Thank you for sharing that with us yellow, I'll bet there'll be a few M16 series owners trying that one now.

Other than trying to make your 20rd mag's feed ramp and feed lips match the shape and angle of the 30rd one that works, I'm not sure what else you can try.

What's happening when you use the 20rd mag now Is the bolt riding over the cartridge, or are they jamming in the mag

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.

yellow · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:23 pm

I've been busy with my M16 for a few more hours today, and I believe it now works like it should Very Happy

Also the problem of the mag must be solved. I tried it about 10 times and it just works cheers

Also made some pictures today, hopefully I can help some other guys with these!

Problem 1: The bolt couldn't get in closed position

Problem 1 solved: had to take away some material in the front of the chamber to make the bolt fit in there

Problem 2: the bolt got sticked in the back of the receiver

Problem 2 solved: polished the bolt and the inside of the receiver untill everything was smooth (difficult work!!)
Also used lots of gun oil!

Problem 3: the extractor did not extract the carts from the chamber
Problem 3 solved: glued a little piece of plastic (only 0.3mm thick!!) on the extractor

Problem 4: carts hit the front of the mag
Problem 4 solved: had to take away some material to get the carts in the chamber

Problem 5: carts often were 'ass-down' in the mag
Problem 5 solved: made a little piece of plastic on the downside of the follower, so that the space below the hole for the spring is filled with plastic. This way, the spring keeps the follower tighter and I believe the carts stay in a better position now. I also polished the upside of the follower, and sanded the feeding lips to allow the carts to move easier.

yellow · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:28 pm

Here some more pictures of the 20 and the 30 round mag. Don't think the 30 round is a Marushin.
There are a lot of differences beside the colour. Please take a look at the pics Wink

Cerwyn · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:19 am

Thank you for these photos yellow, "pictures say a thousand words" don't they

The modifications you've made are now clearly shown and will, undoubtedly, help some of us to get our Marushin M16/XM177 models working

The gold finished 30rd mag looks very different to the 20rd, far more than I expected to see.
I'm confident that one of the lads here will identify it

How well is the model firing now Are you achieving consistent Semi and Auto firing

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.

yellow · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:11 pm

Didn't have the time to fire it yet, but I'm happy that I'm already this far Very Happy

I also only have 5 carts, so I wouldn't have much Auto firing Wink

When I get some more carts in the future I will definately try to fire it!
Keep you guys posted Wink

DOC · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:52 am

The gold mag is a "real steel " one although im not sure what the cut outs are in the sides ...perhaps to see when you are down to your last few rounds. ( liable to get dirt in though )

DOC

yellow · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:59 pm

I think it is "real aluminum" Very Happy

as it is VERY light. The Marushin mag is a lot heavier.
I'm not sure what those cut-outs are for either, but they 'disappear' in the gun when you load the mag in it.

DOC · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:17 pm

yes I know its aluminium .."real steel" means from a real M16 lol

DOC

yellow · Subject: Re: M16 bolt problem Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:48 pm

I know, I know Very Happy

It was meant as a little joke Very Happy

I took another look at the mag and when I looked closer, I saw that the cut-outs were made by hand.
They weren't there originally.
Anyway, this mag works perfectly cheers