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 Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?

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smootik
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PostSubject: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:36 pm

Guys,

I've noticed that over time some of my magazines that were in storage for longer time have developed slight rust on their (painted) surface. They originally had a slight film of silicone oil, but it does not seem to have helped.

Would you know a good way to restore them?

The last resort would be probably a wire brush or other mechanical method, though it would remove paint, too, resulting in more action to repaint magazines.
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:00 am

I often use an electric toothbrush and gun oil to remove that rusty brown coloured deposit left behind by cap smoke residue.
It's difficult to guage sometimes if it's all off because the gun oil turns it transparent. Once the oil starts to dry off the brown deposits return.
Plenty of time spent brushing will clear it.

If it's left for longer periods it can "eat" into steel and start pitting. I've managed to shift some by the toothbrush and oil method without damaging blued steel mags.

Paint is a different problem though. If the steel's rusted the paint will lift away making repainting necessary

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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:33 pm

Hm, I am now confused about what is actually happening. Red/brown deposit from cap is definitely one thing to look for and clean on modelguns, but I've also noticed similar marks on airsoft magazines in the same storage place. This is what made me think "rust". Surface of the mag is probably not painted byt blued - I cannot say as I don't know what blueing looks like.

I will try toothbrush, oil and maybe try to invent other methods to see what are the results :-)

Anyway, it will be a good idea to put some silicone-bead bags in storage boxes to get rid of humidity that might appear there.
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:44 pm

It's a bit difficult to describe what blued finish looks like in words Smile Basically it's has a metalic black/blue sheen. Paint tends not be as metallic, it'll either be matt / flat black or a solid gloss... if that makes sense Question

I hope Francky won't mind me using one of his photos... his MGC68 MP40... blued steel.

The metalic finish on the receivers and mag'well is blued steel, the foregrips are black plastic and look quite different. (Isn't it a beauty Very Happy and well worth drooling over for a bit longer... Wink )

And one of mine, a Hudson PPSh41 Drum mag'.


You'll notice rusty looking deposits around the rivets around the feed lips, and a rusty looking "bloom" to the right of my "assistant's" thumb... nope,those are most definately not my finger nails...
The rusty looking deposit was left by cap smoke. Unless it's scrubbed off and oiled the steel will start to rust and pit. That can be restored by lots of brushing and oil, perhaps even some fine grade abrasive paper if it's deep. Unfortunately, abrasive paper will remove the blue finish on models. It isn't as tough as real weapons from what I'm told.
It's worth cleaning everything thoroughly, then check them again the day after. It's surprising how much of this brown stuff reaapears overnight.

If, as you say, Airsoft magazines are showing signs of rusting then it can't be from cap smoke No Perhaps a really good and thorough wipedown with good quality oil would help shift it. I was told to store GBB magazines in a sealable plastic bag with a good spray or coating of silcone oil.
If damp and humidity is the problem, you might be onto a winner using those silicone beadbags.

There might be a better oil to use than silicone Question I was once told that smearing grease over metal parts is no guarantee against rust. If it's there even in minute quantities to start with, the rust can develop underneath the grease Shocked

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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:07 pm

Cerwyn,

You did very well with explanations, indeed!

I think now that the magazines are blued.

Completely agree with you about brown deposit reappearing and being difficult to remove. What you have shown on PPsh is what I see on my modelguns too. Cleaning is probably where we spend most of the time (not counting drooling at modelgun photos) :-)

I now know much more about cleaning. So far I have used only silicone oil for conservation, but it is probably not enough for metal parts. I bought some metal-specific deoxidant/oil in car shop - until I can find a proper gun oil this should work. I will also put airsoft magazines in bags, as you have suggested. Somehow I didn't think of that before.

Now, back to cleaning ;-)
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:02 am

Hi smootik,

I'm glad you found my last post useful Wink thank you.

Your Marushin P38 review includes a photo of it's magazine and you correctly say that the rusty brown deposits on the lips are indeed cap-smoke residue. If left uncleaned, it will cause rusting and yes, you're right, re-check a day or so after cleaning to make sure the deposits haven't reappeared.

I've used Browning Leger Gun Oil on all my metal models. It's a good cleaning agent as well as a lubricant. Light machine oil such as 3-in-1 is thicker than the Browning oil and also works well.
Perhaps I do tend to put too much oil on them after cleaning... I tend to soak all moving parts, everything that's been subjected to cap-smoke in oil then reassemble before storage. I'll wipe the gun down with an oily rag after assembly.

Before firing, a quick strip down to remove excess oil from deonator chambers and magazines etc is all that's needed.

There are ,no doubt, several brands of gun oil available, and we'll all have preferences for given types.
I'd be very interested to know what types folks use, and why...

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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:29 am

Cerwyn wrote:
[b]I'd be very interested to know what types folks use, and why...

As far as i know some gun-oils contain solvents to get rid of burnt and un-burnt powder, i've heard that some of these solvents might be volatile on any plastic material, really slowly dissolving it.

I try to use silicon-oil on any plastic modelgun and i've used 5-56 oil on some of my metal modelguns.

In my limited experience i prefer to use silicon oil.
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:48 am

2Sharp wrote:
Cerwyn wrote:
[b]I'd be very interested to know what types folks use, and why...

As far as i know some gun-oils contain solvents to get rid of burnt and un-burnt powder, i've heard that some of these solvents might be volatile on any plastic material, really slowly dissolving it.

I try to use silicon-oil on any plastic modelgun and i've used 5-56 oil on some of my metal modelguns.

In my limited experience i prefer to use silicon oil.

Hi 2sharp Wink

That's the problem using certain Solvents on plastics... Gun Oil (for real guns) might well be great on metal models but damaging to plastic.
WD-40 has been discussed before as harmful to certain abs and HW models too.

Abbey make Silicone oils and Grease sold in the UK for Airsoft guns, as most of those are plastic, I've used it on some of my ab and HW models. The aerosol spray on oil is quite thin though, I wonder at times if it's up to the job Question I've heard of thicker Silicone Oils that can be applied per drops, but can't find a seller Exclamation

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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:24 pm

An update:
  • small real rust spots were removed with... Coke (or Pepsi, I don't remember which one I used). I submerged rusty areas in liquid and removed it from time to time to check. In the end I left it overnight. Coke (or rather orthophosphoric acid) removed brown rust leaving clean, gray-ish spots. After drying and applying silicone oil it looks good now, although I should probably put a spot of paint (?) to cover metal.
  • some of the cap residue "rust" gets embedded in paint/surface and cannot be removed completely (at least using typical methods) without leaving some marks on the part itself. I have one mag where residue got removed (scrubbed) only with paint.
  • automotive metal antioxidant oil (Ceramic Super Duper Something) has a foul smell, it is petroleum based I guess. It left thin greasy film on the surface, but I think it has also penetrated under paint. Paint became very fragile and now scratches very easily. I guess that instead of protecting, it had an opposite effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:55 pm

Smootik,

Here is some suggestion from myself. I observed people discussing how to preserve steel parts in good condition here.

- storage
Store in shade with better ventilated place. Do not suggest to put a magazine into plastic bag

- application
Do not over apply oil/grease on a surface. Excessive oil may attracts the dirts in air which may contain some acid nature material which gradually oxidized the surface. Also, usually, machined oil is not super purified, some ingredients (waste kind) of oil itself may do some chemical reaction in a long run

- plastic
As 2Sharp mentioned, do not suggest to use mineral oil onto ABS/HW material. Especially, an oil with spray type which may contain Thinner kind ingredients which really damage (far more than oil itself) ABS/HW

- silicon
I suggest silicon oil/spreay. Maybe, silicon cloth used for real gun could be a good one for magazine. But remember, film of silicon oil is weaker than that of oil, you may need more frequent attention

- finger prints
Lastly, I suggest to use gloves if you really, really want to preserve steel parts. Finger prints (human grease) is absolute "No-No" for any steel material.

Hope this may helps.

shaz,
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:08 am

Cerwyn wrote:
I often use an electric toothbrush and gun oil to remove that rusty brown coloured deposit left behind by cap smoke residue.
That proved to be a useful tip!

I couldn't find my electric toothbrush (bought one a long time ago to check, didn't like), so I used Dremel tool with nylon bristle brush (403). It was delicate enough to slowly remove deposit, and not destroy surface of magazine. Brush has to be cleaned during process to avoid re-depositing.

Of course - test before you go ahead.
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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:35 am

Cleaning the toothbrush head in a Bicarb/Vinegar/hot water solution in the UltraSonic cleaner brings the bristles up like new again It'll clean away really heavy dirt and oil deposits.
Almost clean enough to brush your teeth... (almost, maybe not quite )

Would the Dremmel's brush tolerate being dropped into liquid

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PostSubject: Re: Cleaning rust from metal magazines - how?   Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:45 am

Quote :

Would the Dremmel's brush tolerate being dropped into liquid
Brush is integrated with steel support, I am not sure if that steel is stainless.
I have some spare brushes, will leave it wet to see what happens.

PS: it's been snowing here since morning, welcome winter!
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