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 Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap

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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:15 pm

Hello All,

First posting, Be gentle with me Very Happy
Some of you know me already, and I hope to get to know the rest of you!!

I noticed that about a year ago mention was made of using Marushin Colt "pocket" .25 cartridges in the Hudson Scorpion, has anyone tried this out yet?
It's a nice looking model but sure is hard work getting it firing on auto!!

Thanks
JohnnyV
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:05 pm

Did you ever get around to trying that?
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:19 pm

No not yet:( one more still on the to do list!!
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:28 pm



going through my cartridges for adding to the Library, this came to light:

MGC 7.62mm Luger P08 (abs) CP-HW O/All length 23.55mm Diameter 7.55mm

Hudson Vz61 Skorpion O/All length 23.60mm Diameter 8.00mm

I wonder if they'd perform in Hudson's Skorpion Question


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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:42 pm

Thanks for that Cerwyn!! Will give it a try as soon as I can:) will let you know!!
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:01 am

JohnnyV wrote:
Thanks for that Cerwyn!! Will give it a try as soon as I can:) will let you know!!

No problem John, I know it's late coming, but better late than never eh Question Very Happy

I'll get some photos taken asap for the Library showing Rim detail especially for comparison with Hudson's Skorpion cartridge.

A new owner from Norway is also keen to find a suitable alternative cart for this modelgun so please do keep us informed Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:56 pm

GGRRRRRRR
Cerwyn you have now made me dig this one out again.... Frustration time with the scorpion. lol! lol!
OK first news it that the MGC carts are not tapered like the scorpion ones Sad the Hudson carts are 8mm at the rear and 7.42mm at the front) (maybe mag feed issues from this, but see about that another time:))
And guess what the detonator chamber is tapered as well!! so the carts do not fit at the far end:(

So far I have:
Opened up the det chamber a little to accecpt the MGC cart:)
Made a new det pin as the original is too long:( new pin is 3mm shorter )
Put it all back together
Loaded up a Mgc cart (just 1 Smile)
Fired and ejected and blewback perfect!
So a good start!!

Will try a 10 round burst later and let you know:)Smile
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:39 pm

cheers Well that's one GREAT start cheers

Let's hope now that further tests prove positive bounce

There'll be more than a few Hudson Skorpion owners keen to know how this goes now Very Happy

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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:17 pm

latest news

5 shot burst Successful !!
The main thing I noticed is the carts ejecting cleanly, which has always been one of the main issues!

Please note that this one has a lot of other work done on it previously, but the rounds have always been trouble so this new cart looks good
More later:)
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:23 pm

Fantastic news John cheers next question is this, do you have ample stock of the MGC Luger cartridges please as I know of folks that'll take some

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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:54 pm

Reading through Sharaaya's pages, he appears to have spent many frustrating hours trying to make Hudson's Vz61 fire PFC cartridges reliably.

His first conclusions were that:


  • Hudson's own cartridge design is terrible
  • Magazine spring is too weak

Experiments with Mulberry Field .32 cartridges, Mulberry Field's & Marushin's PPK proved better than Hudsons' BUT problems arose when loading the magazine. The Vz61 has a curved magazine that, in his opinion, favours tapered cartridges. Loading any more than 7 cartridges were causing the magazine to jam.

Mag' Spring tension was increased by fitting a wooden block beneath the spring. Interestingly, Lucifer had made a complete new mag'follower from Nylon (by the look of it)

It'll be interesting to learn if JohnnyV has any problems loading the MGC Luger P08 7.65mm CP-HW into the curved magazine

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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:21 pm

Also a small related discussion here:

http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t1738-problem-with-hudson-vz61-scorpion?highlight=scorpion

Still have to try more than 5, so will try 15:) if it works I will do a video:) I am happy now just to get 5 on auto!
The scorpion (apart from the stupid stock locking problem / design) is a really nice metal model!

Ps mine is now converted to Barrel venting and that makes it 100% nicer:)Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Vz61 Scorpion cartridge Swap   Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:45 pm

Looking forwards to hearing more of this John Very Happy

Sharaaya states that his Scorpion would only manage 3 shots in Full Auto (as you found in your posts linked above). Achieving 5 seems to be a massive leap forwards as things stand now Wink Have a look at

http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2683p210-transferred-pages-from-shiraaya-s-website (page 15)


Scroll down the page, the English translation is there. Google Translate was used to decipher the original script. It isn't easy reading (I know) but you'll get the jist of his findings. Regrettably his photos had gone before I had time to save them

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