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 Different 5mm MGC pistons???

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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:15 pm

Hi
Last night, had a few confused hours scratch scratch scratch
I got a MGC luger, stripped it, cleaned it, rebuilt it, loaded it, fired it.......nothing?????//

After thinking about it realised carts had MGC Mac11 type pistons inside??? dug around and found some longer type pistons as in Smotiks MGC Luger review post.
http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-reviews-f4/mgc-p08-abs-version-t2118.htm
everything fine now:)

How many types of 5mm MGC pistons are there!!!!!!!!!!

Confused from the UK scratch lol!


Last edited by JohnnyV on Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added link)
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:24 pm

I think there are two types.
One is like in MAC-11, with an o-ring. This is a newer CP-HW design.
The other is like in P08, with empty cap used as a seal. This is older CP-BLK design.

I had experience just like you :-D At the time I did not realize that a second cap is needed, but I loaded original cap upside down. It worked as cap and seal at the same time. Blowback was good enough to cycle model, but I guess this was still not optimal.
It was much later when I realized that another cap is needed. Looking at my review I see that I somehow missed this important information :-/
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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:54 pm

Ok Smootik:)
Now i am confused... I use o-ring over longer piston....


Do you use cap with hole over piston?
(boy my phone takes rubbish close ups LOL )
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:02 pm

I'll take some pictures and measurements tomorrow to show my setup. It's possible that I might be wrong, too ;-)

I think that what you have here is CP-HW piston, so o-ring is the right thing to put on it.
CP-BLK piston is thinner and (I think) even longer. Look on the right side of this picture:
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DOC
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:29 pm

smootik , cartridge on left side used a small o ring on the brass section, this was inserted into cartridge, 5mm plastic cap was then inserted with powder charge facing towards the front of the cartridge, models that use this type have a wide Det pin "bulb" that provides the seal to the cartridge...sticking out the end of the "bulb" is a small nipple that ignited the cap when hammer/mech struck ( small hole in the back of this cartridge type is to push the brass piece out for re-loading )

The type on the right used a dead cap pushed onto the long pin ( open end of cap facing tip of pin ) then the small brass "primer" was inserted into cartridge, then live cap ( powder facing towards front ) then piston/dead cap fitted and the top screwed on.

I still use the dead cap "seal" with my MGC Thompson carts , works fine and no seals to replace.

DOC

Edit Excuse the poor photo the light is fading here



O ring is flat sided type not a rubber ring like later sort ...the silver item is the original MGC tool for making holes in dead caps and pushing out brass pistons from early cartridges
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:48 pm

Please completely ignore cartridge on the left on the previous picture - it is old BLK cartridge without a firing piston (one going on top of cartridge), just a brass insert that sits under a cap, as you described.

I should have technically waited until midnight ;-) but to clear confusion here's picture of MGC MAC-11 CP-HW cartridge (top) and MGC P08 CP-BLK one (bottom) showing the difference. Cartridges have different diameter, size and shape.

Also pistons are different: top cartridge has a shorter but thicker firing piston with o-ring. Bottom one is longer and thinner. There should be a cap sitting on the stem, but I couldn't find one at the moment.



BTW - nice tool! I haven't seen one before.
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JohnnyV
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:26 pm

Lots Of Info Very Happy
OK first, Doc, Smootik, your photos put mine to shame! Doc I hardly think you photos need to be excused:) I think this makes mine look even worse lol!
I will buy new camera tomorrow!!!!!!!

Next thing, I have a third type of piston, my photo does not show at all well, but it is same length as one you describe for empty cap method, BUT has "deeper" head section (this prevents using empty cap method as two caps [one dead one live] facing each other will not "fit" and prevent pin moving far enough down the cart to ignite cap.
Also "stem" is thicker allowing 5mm o-ring to sit tight and just run correct in bore of cart.
These were sold as MGC 5mm inners and came with o-rings. So I guess these are a later improved inner for this style of cart allowing o-rings to be used....

So we are up to 3 Types of MGC CP-BLK inners so far:)


Last edited by JohnnyV on Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : CP-BLK inserted :) to be clear)
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Different 5mm MGC pistons???   Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:47 pm

JohnnyV wrote:
I will buy new camera tomorrow!!!!!!!
Check out some photo taking tips&hints in this thread:
http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-reviews-f4/taking-better-photographs-t741.htm

I used to recommend Panasonic DMC-LZ8, I think it is now replaced by a new model. Excellent quality and features for a very reasonable price. Auto mode is impressive enough that people who just want to point&shoot are very satisfied with results, while there is enough controls to get more advanced results if needed. Don't go for a high-end camera, it will not automatically take better pictures.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q408budgetgroup/page8.asp

I wonder for what cartridge the pistons you mentioned were designed...
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