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 HUDSON M1 Garand

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kiwigunner
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PostSubject: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:11 am

WATCH THIS SPACE!


My Hudson M1 Garand is in the local mail......and will be reviewed shortly!
Just wanted to give some advance notice in anticipation!

Kiwigunner


Last edited by kiwigunner on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:08 pm

Looking forwards to this Very Happy

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Momocampo
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:23 pm

Very nice Kiwi, very, very nice...
It's a model gun or a dummy?
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Dronne
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:24 pm

Hi everybody,
It's a "total" replica, it can cycle completly the 8 rounds clip, and if you want that it ejects the clip at the cycle's end, don't forget to remove the bullet form the last case before feeding.
To avoid feeding failure, it's useful to replace the feedind system parts with "reals" parts, like that, it work perfectly.
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kiwigunner
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:25 pm

Quote :
Is it a PFC modelgun or Dummy? (Momocampo)
From what I’ve been able to find out, the answer is simple – no PFC M1’s have ever been made because it has proven so far as I know, to be mechanically impossible to make the long op-rod work with PFC caps. (Now that sounds like a challenge for someone!) study

So it's a very high quality dummy replica. Normally costs about NZ$3000. Far too high for my budget. Sad But at the auction price I won it for - it was within the upper limits if what I could afford. cheers

Due to the large receiver frame and operating action, it requires a greater amount of force to cycle than all other model guns. The plug fire cartridge caps simply cannot generate enough power to cycle the mechanism, so the only workable operating action, retaining the .30-06 replica cartridges, has been hand operation and nitroair.

A Hudson nitroair model was made in a limited production quantity. The model had to be operated with an external nitroair tank. It did not fire any projectiles. These factors, combined with a higher retail price, resulted in a limited user base for the M1 Garand nitroair powered model gun which eventually was discontinued.

Of course Marushin make a nice Airsoft Garand (over the years in 4 versions: walnut, urethane, vintage & basic) - but reviewers have said the quality of the walnut on the Hudson is much better - and the internals for the Marushin are completely designed for Airsoft, and are quite complicated to use and easily damaged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g99UcrA1tY&feature=related

I own a real M14 (Norinco), so because the internals are similar to the M1 Garand and I don't have a real Garand, my review will contain photos and a comparison between the two!

Thanks for the advice Dronne! I'll keep that in mind! sunny

Kiwigunner




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claymore
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:04 pm

kiwigunner, i undersrtand what you mean with the power of the cap but to be honest i find it hard to believe the caps dont have the power, i have some modelguns with full steel heavy bolts and they have no problem in blowing the bolt and spring back, so rumours of cap power i tend to disbelieve however Hudson modelguns being total crap at firing is true and all their models need huge upgrades to get them firing, caps themselves have a suprising amount of power.
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kiwigunner
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:03 am

Hi Claymore.......as a relative new-comer to Modelguns, I was influenced by what has been written on the net; but as a Kiwi - traditionally we love it when people say "impossible"! That's a challenge.....so I prefer to hear your point of view! cheers

Do you know of anyone who has tried to modify a Hudson Garand to make it cycle? My first impulse was to maybe design a possible modification (or series of mods) as a long term project, and to gain more experience about PFC cartridges.

The Hudson Garand dummy is a fine working replica - but it appeals to me more if it could be made to cycle with caps!

Kiwigunner
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Dronne
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:53 am

Hi!
Maybe if you weaken the operating spring, it could cycle pcf cartridges. But i guess because the low hardness of the alloy used for the bolt (the bolt itself, the extracor, the ejector etc..), it won't works longtime....
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claymore
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:43 am

Weakening the recoil spring alone i doubt will work Hudsons are renowned for being terrible to fire and need a lot of mods to get them working. My AK works great now but a lot of work was put it into to get it working it had problems in the bolt, problem in the chamber being slightly misalined so the rounds would not chamber correctly (PPSH had the same problem) and the old brass rounds were not to good the new aluminium ones worked much better, i would suggest that you garand will be similar to the AK and be a combination of problems but i doubt the spring will be one of them. I dont have a garand and i am not sure anyone i know does either but i am sure if anyone on this forum has had one and got it firing they will post some answers for you.
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8ace
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:58 pm

I had a Garand a few years ago which is a very very nice model (fitted with real woodwork)

I did look into a PFC conversion but the main problem is due to the charging handle needing to be forced back so the bolt can rotate, unlock and slide back with the force of the cap

Also it needs a strong recoil spring to keep the internal mechanism (the plate that pushes the rounds up , last round hold open and clip spring) working, which is sadly too strong (I feel) for a cap, although you could use 2 Question

The third issue is the rounds Suspect they’ll need to be close to a .30-06 as possible to maintain the clip shape and position into the chamber to feed well.

I'd love to see one done but as Hudson have done such a good job at copying the internal mechanism it doesn't lend itself to PFC conversion No

8ace
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kiwigunner
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:04 pm

Well!.........the PLOT thickens! Rolling Eyes
My Hudson M1 Garand arrived this week..... BUT..... it was not the DUMMY model. It was the CO2 shell-ejecting model!
After an exchange of emails it appears that my lay-by had got mixed up and all the dummy models have sold out! Crying or Very sad
Gun City offered an exchange for another item, or a complete cash refund....and an apology. In the end I decided to keep the CO2 shell-ejecting version.

I'm fairly certain I can use dummy rounds in it anyway - but the CO2 shells are hollow with a hole running all the way from end to end, the cartridge tip (where the bullet would normally be) is just a narrowing of the case with a plastic blunt insert. They can jam occasionally when manually cycling the rounds. Evil or Very Mad

The CO2 power comes from an EXTERNAL bottle which holds a standard CO2 gas "powerlette" canister connected via a thin rigid plastic hose.
A bit of a pain really. What a Face

This is a very rare Hudson Garand version - and I am loathe to modify it - but if I could hollow out the butt-stock and re-route the hose, it may be possible to "hide" the CO2 bottle? scratch

The other option is to cut the hose off and just use it as a dummy modelgun.
But the design indicates that Hudson had to use CO2 to cycle the action and not caps.

Anyway, I'll review it over the weekend and post lots of photos of this very, very rare Hudson. sunny
If anyone in the Forum has one, please feel free to post you comments and experiences!

In the meantime:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsehFL59p3U&feature=related
and these three:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ9iVPDLHkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9wRwxPqns&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHq3Z0-ljp4

Kiwigunner








Last edited by kiwigunner on Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added youtube links)
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:28 am

I would seriously, seriously hesitate to modify it... these are Really Rare, and cutting off the hose would be as damaging as cutting up an MGC Sterling to make a Star Wars blaster :-/

I understand you would have preferred a dummy/modelgun, but please reconsider your choices.

More information about gas version made-to-order in this thread. Shazhib might have more information and/or updated photos of his Hudson gas M14:
http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t742-hudson-m1-garand-and-hudson-s-m14
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:45 pm

Oh no, please don't convert it! Those GBBs are really rare, I'd love to have one of these.

Well, I'd rather have the Hudson M14 GBB and I tried everything quite a while back, but to no avail. Shazhib doesn't have his anymore, as he stated in this thread.
The M14 GBBs are even rarer than the M1 GBBs, but still, "destroying" an M1 would be a sin! Smile

If you want to sell this M1, kiwigunner, in order to get the funds for a dummy version, I'm sure you will find interested buyers. I probably would be one, but I'm not sure if I could afford it at the moment Laughing
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kiwigunner
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:52 am

Thanks for the comments.
I've had the beastly up and working today, and it really does work well - at least until the gas pressure drops off. But the action IS excellent and so far no jams, once the first cartridge is inserted into the chamber.
The photos have captions, so i hope they're easy to understand!

So let the Review begin!
The box below arrived and I was looking forward to my M1 Garand dummy model.


On closer inspection I discovered it was NOT the dummy model I was expecting, but the rare CO2 shell-ejecting model!
I notified the supplier right away - but on checking they said they were out of stock on the dummy models. Eventually I came to terms with what I had received, though I was somewhat disappointed. I don't like cables and bottles hanging from my modelguns! Mad
Then I noticed the spelling on the box cover was incorrect - I had a GADAND M1. WOW! They are so rare as to be unheard of! lol!
Lucky the instruction manual was correctly labeled even if the rest was written in Japanese!

The cartridges came installed in a clip (called an en-block) weird looking with white plastic tips with holes all the way through their centres! Then I realised that was how the CO2 reaches the bolt to cycle the action.

I checked the action by pulling back on the charging handle - making sure it was pulled back all the way 100%. It is possible to lock it back at 96%, as it will lock onto the internal follower (the spring-loaded part that ejects the en-block clip when all the shells have been fired. The en-block clip makes the famous "ping" sound M1 Garands are famous for).
If you fail to pull the handle all the way back, and if you depress the follower accidentally then the bolt will slam forward, usually pushing your thumb into the chamber with much force. This nasty injury is called the "M1 THUMB". Best to avoid it - pull that handle right back as far as it will go!
Now you may insert the cartridge clip down onto the follower and push it hard down until it locks in place.

Then you can use the charging handle to push the first cartridge into the chamber and close the action.

I then manually cycled the action and found that the manual ejection was excellent, with no problems.
A full or partially used clip may be ejected by fully opening the charge handle and pushing the small button/tab on the left of the receiver.

THE CO2 BOTTLE

The M1 gas cable needed to be connected to the gas container bottle - an easy enough job - it was a firm push-fit.
The modelgun came with 5 Co2 power-let canisters - and these are simply dropped into the plastic bottom-half of the bottle, ensuring the gas regulator on the top half is set to the lowest (off) setting. The assembly is completed by screwing the top & bottom halves together:

I turned the regulator to the "ON" position and after checking for any leaks (there were none) I pulled the trigger.
The Modelgun Garand fired flawlessly, ejecting the shells each time I pulled the trigger - fast or slow. I reloaded a few times and repeated the process. As the gas levels emptied the final clip ejection became less energetic, until it was time to change the power-let canister.

Here's a link to a video clip I found on youtube:
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif4

Although slower than a real-steel M1 action, the Hudson worked remarkably well and consistently from the first time!
So I am very happy with its operation - and something different from my previous modelgun experiences.


Next week I'll write a section about the take-down and field stripping of this model..... so until then.
Cheers,

Kiwigunner









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Momocampo
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:02 pm

Hey Kiwi, really "La classe" Smile Very smart.
Yes, it is a really wonderful model. I like, bravo.
The wood is nice, silent silent silent I don't know what add...

Just one question : The famous sound "chding" after the last cart is heret? yyyesss!! if it's the same than the video Smile(and you said in your review) I love!!! I remind me my old video game "medal of honor"

Wink

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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:31 am

This is a beauty Very Happy The finish on the Walnut woodwork looks absolutely stunning

Despite the fact this model wasn't the Dummy cartridge version you were expecting, I have to be honest and say, now I've seen these photos, that I think you may have done better by receiving such a well finished and rare model. The fact it cycles and ejects shells and the clip using C02 rather than just by hand swings it for me. That's a real beaut Kiwi Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:11 pm

Hmmmm, It's a beautiful gun, however... I guess it's some type of federal thing that requires the CO2 to be external, I mean, connected to the gun via cable/tube. What would probably make it much nicer is if that whole contraption was inside the stock instead.... I wonder what's in the stock that caused them to not put the CO2 holder inside it.. size? other "unknown" devices?
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:49 pm

Lukara wrote:
I guess it's some type of federal thing that requires the CO2 to be external
What could be a "federal thing"?

I guess this was simply the standard way of connecting external gas to gas-operated models. Almost all Japanese airsoft models in 80s/90s were supplied by external gas (HFC134a or propane/green gas), so I guess this is why Hudson has chosen this way too. It isn't until very recently that CO2 capsules are used so much, especially in-the-mag ones.
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:38 am

Quote :
Just one question : The famous sound "chding" after the last cart is heret? yyyesss!! if it's the same than the video Smile(and you said in your review) I love!!! I remind me my old video game "medal of honor"

Momocampo - I found this on Youtube..... lot's of "pings" from "Band of Brothers" TV series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jobfbmwVu9o

Kiwigunner


Last edited by kiwigunner on Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:57 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : typo correction)
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Dronne
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:24 am

Nice review!
Thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: HUDSON M1 Garand   Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:15 pm

Very nice review, you've just got to love that ping
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