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 "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:07 pm


 
"MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridges
Japanese Custom Shop



(If anyone can translate this sheet into English I'd be very grateful Smile )

MAD Police are a Custom Shop in Japan. As a result of the major Modelgun manufacturers closing down followed quickly by reduced availability of cartridges they developed these 9mm version c.p. type cartridges a short time ago and I was lucky enough to get my hands on them to try out Very Happy

The cartridge has been released primarily for use in Marushin's Beretta M92 series modelguns which surprised me at first. I must admit to being rather sceptical having assumed that these were designed to replace MGC's P220 versatile cartridge which has been used in several modelgun conversions to c.p. type for improved performance as it's appearance seems to closely resemble MGC's P220

Not only were these first thought, in error, to have been manufactured by TanioKoba, they were also believed to be of same lightweight Aluminium Alloy, with gold anodised finish as the .223"M4A1 TK and the newly released .45ACP cartridge.
However, weighing one showed it to be 2g heavier than Brass P220 i.e. 10g compared to 8g:shock: I have since been informed they are in fact, Brass Exclamation   





From Left to Right, Cartridge Case, "primer", Hexagon Cut Piston & 0-ring, Cartridge Top. Alongside are two assembled cartridges.

Loading procedure is exactly the same as any MGC c.p. cartridge EXCEPT for the bonus feature of this cartridge... it'll accept a SECOND cap:!: . They will perform perfectly well with a single cap, but the option to use two is there. Normally it is NOT recommended to use 2 caps in c.p. or PFC cartridges because the pressures generated within the cartridge will quickly damage the cartridge body and often generate too much blowback force causing damage to bolts barrels and other expensive parts of the gun.
These cartridges are designed to use One cap to generate blowback, while the second cap faces the gun's muzzle and has a clear open pathway to vent through the chamber and barrel. Excessive pressure should not become a problem if it's clear to vent straight out. It's most likely the best effects will be using open, short barreled pistols or open barreled SMGs. We'll soon see bounce

After inserting the Primer and first 7mm cap, very lightly lubricate the piston's 0-ring with Silicone Grease or Oil and push it into the casing just below the top of the case



Now, lightly oil/grease the edges of the second 7mm cap, push it into the casing, charge facing up, until it's flush with the top of the case


Lastly, screw on the cartridge top:





Firing Performance:


As these are intended for Marushin's Beretta M92, I loaded 2 cartridges into the magazine of my M9 Dolphin. Being cautious, the first attempts used just ONE cap. They fit the magazine perfectly so all's well so far. Rack the slide back, feed the first cartridge into the chamber, no problems, no uncontrolled firing.
All that remains is to pull the trigger... First squeeze resulted in a perfect firing, good extraction and ejection of the spent cartridge. The gun loaded the next cartridge ready for firing as an Automatic pistol should. Squeeze the trigger again and another satisfying perfect firing, extraction and clean ejection. Very Happy I was wrong to be sceptical obviously, these work great in Marushin's M9 cheers

The next step was to re-load with new caps, but using the second cap this time. Again, perfect feeding into the chamber, no uncontrolled firing. Squeezing the trigger resulted in a much louder BANG, with a reasonable amount of muzzle effect too. As it ejected the first and chambered the next round cleanly, the next squeeze gave another loud BANG. These look really good....

Checking the cartridges afterwards showed a punch mark in the centre of the pistons' top, made when the Detonator Pin struck against it. Most of my MGC pistons have similar marks but it's something to keep an eye on. The 0-rings were fine, Primers unmarked by the gun's firing pin and no evidence of rim marking.

First firing tests then, although only two cartridges each, gave excellent results. The next planned test will be using full magazines in both Single shot and Full Auto in the Dolphin .... Watch This Space bounce bounce bounce


Other modelgun applications:


Being so similar to the MGC P220 cartridge, I'm hoping these will perform just as well in several of my converted modelguns. (i.e. converted to fire MGC P220 c.p. carts.)
The cartridges fit in MGC Stirling, MGC68 MP40 and Marushin UZI magazines without problems. They do NOT, however, fit in WaShan Beretta M9 Dolphin mags' ... it seems they are marginally longer than MGCs original P220. I'll measure them accurately and report back.

Next planned tests will include firing using single and double caps in MGC Stirling, MP40 and Marushin's UZI.
I'll keep you informed, written reports and Videos to follow asap bounce

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.


Last edited by Cerwyn on Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:29 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Corrected Errors)
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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:25 pm

In response to Claymore's question elsewhere, I'm told the 9mm p220 lookalikes work in Tanaka 9mm Automatic pistols too

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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:56 pm

These work well in my MGC Stirling Very Happy

It's been converted to fire MGC P220 c.p. cartridges already, these aluminium alloy cartridges fire well in both Single and Double cap loads. Using 2 MG caps certainly vents more smoke through the muzzle. So far there's not much else to be gained from the additional cap.

However, using a Marushin 7mm as the 2nd cap gave a noticably louder BANG, more smoke and a little sparking in the ejection port. Not as much sparking as when using Marushin caps on their own so altogether a very pleasing firing session.

A little more experimenting's called for with a dash of Mg powder I think Wink

Videos to come as soon as I'm able to sort them

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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:37 am

Here's a short taster video of my MGC Stirling firing the new Tanio Koba 9mm light alloy cartridges.


24 cartridges, double capped using MG 7mm for blowback and 1 Marushin 7mm on top of the piston

Click here to View: http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif4
One cartridge failed to fire, found to be due to air-lock in the cartridge stopping the piston travelling all the way to strike the cap Crying or Very sad Otherwise, perfect firing cheers
Most obvious effect is much more smoke, although I'd expected more to vent from the Muzzle. I think a lot of smoke and possibly Flash is leaking between the barrel / chamber due to the locknut no being tightened up fully

I'll get that sorted and try again asap ...

Here's another brief video after securing the barrel locknut. Only slightly more smoke from the muzzle. I did find that the chamber's been drilled through beneath the locknut. This is most likely one of MGC's own mods' to make a Display only model. Over the years someone had the goodness to convert this back to cap-firing mode cheers I'm sure that plugging the drilled holes would allow more smoke to vent through the barrel & muzzle




Click Here to View: http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif4

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.


Last edited by Cerwyn on Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:17 pm

Gave myself something of a shock today, weighing these TK Aluminium cartridges shows them to be 2g HEAVIER than MGC Brass P220 cartridges Shocked

I'd been told they were thicker and stronger than brass P220s, I'd have to agree that the cartridge tops are not as prone to crushing or as thin as the brass 220s. Rims are also staying in good shape. There are ejector marks on them by now, having been fired 9-10 times each but they're in better shape than brass considering I use steel bolts

So they're not the Lightweights I first thought Exclamation Regardless, they're firing very well. So far I've used them in MGC Stirling, MGC68 MP40, Marushin UZI (all converted to fire P220) and Marushin's Beretta M9 Dolphin

Conclusion-- Still GREAT

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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:04 pm

Second Video added above

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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:02 pm

Tanio Koba promo' video of the new carts in Beretta M9 Modelgun


Click Here to View:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_yo_MH-L_I&feature=related


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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:56 pm


MGC68 MP40 Firing Tanio Koba Double Cap 9mm Cartridges

Click here to View: http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif4


The Video does not really convey how much louder this is compared to standard single cap MGC P220 cartridges, but take it from me, this is noticeably louder
The only downside, unfortunately, is that the Detonator Pin gets so dirty after one magazine load it'll start jamming when a second mag is inserted. Cleaning is relatively easy thankfully so it's not a huge problem.

Edit 26/04/12:

Whether or not Cap Smoke, the sound of a full metal MP40 chattering through it's ammunition at that wonderful slow rate is intoxicating to the point of taking me beyond blindness and stupidity, the fact remains both I, and the guy firing in the video above failed to notice the '40 running away with itself and continuing to fire a few rounds after releasing the trigger Embarassed Rolling Eyes Mad


This will obviously need checking out but a check of both sear and bolt showed both to be in good shape. Next thing is to check the recoil spring. Following that, a test fire using MGC P220 cartridges, this model's intended cartridge, should prove interesting

I'll let you know how things go......

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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:23 am

A quick test fire last night using 6 only MGC P220 cartridges in my MGC68 MP40 gave faultless results. Trigger control is so good that all 6 were fired as if in Semi-Auto. No over-runs, no problems as seen in the Video above. I need to fire a magazine loaded with at least 28 P220 next to see how controllable burst firing is then.

Using the cartridge library to check dimensions, TanioKoba 9mm carts are 9.10mm dia. while MGC P220 are 9.15mm dia. Yet, the TK carts require more effort to extract from the chamber when cycling the gun manually. Carts are double capped using "dead" caps . It'll need a little more investigation but I'm of the opinion the Detonator Pin my be getting stuck in the second cap which is the first thing it hits. If the Pin is embedding itself in the plastic cap, it may be the reason why it takes so much more effort to extract.

If this is the case, over-run and uncontrolled burst fire may be due to gas pressure being wasted during Blowback, leaving too little to push the bolt back bhind the Sear scratch

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PostSubject: Re: "MAD Police" 9mm C.P. Cartridge ... First Impressions   Wed May 02, 2012 10:45 am

Another firing session yesterday gave me time to try my MGC MP40 again.

Using standard MGC P220, single capped cartridges, 28 per magazine, it fired faultlessly. Trigger control makes single shots possible, quite easily. Burst fire totally controllable 3, 5, 10 shots, as many as you'd like. The conclusion therefore, is that the gun is perfect and not responsiblefor the overuns shown in the video above.

Double capping the MGC P220s, in the same manner as the TK 9mm, gave a completely different result, 6 cartridges in the mag.... uncontrollable overun, all 6 rattled off when a single shot was tried for. Same result as the TK 9mm. Checking the cartridges over afterwards showed the upper cap had been deformed by impacting against the Det.Pin (to be expected really) but I'm beginning to think that the fired cap wraps itself around and grabs the det.pin momentarily. This may, possibly, jam the cartridge just long enough to waste blowback pressure shoving it out of the chamber and not leaving nough force to blow the bolt back past the Sear

This overun problem did not occurr when I fired the TK 9mm carts in my Stirling which uses the same type of chamber & det.pin.

Next, I loaded 10 TK 9mm Double capped carts into Marushin's M9 Dolphin. 3 semi-auto shots, perfect. 7 in full auto, also perfect.

The next 10 in full auto, faultless. The last 12 in short bursts of automatic fire, PERFECT. LOUD, great muzzle effect, faultless firing. This is the modelgun these TK 9mm were designed for and they work brilliantly as Double Capped.

All that remains is to try the TK carts, single capped, in the MGC MP40 now...

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