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 MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems

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Ammo
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Ammo


Number of posts : 28
Age : 48
Location / Country : UK
Registration date : 2009-10-17

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PostSubject: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeTue Sep 04, 2012 8:18 pm

Does anyone have instructions on any of the above models? I had some in Japanese for the shotgun but they are not good enough for me to understand to the point I can actually use the shotgun. I'm pretty good with M4's but am having some feeding/ejecting issues which instructions may help me get to the bottom of. All the cartridges I got with it are pretty much dead too as they were used and left lying about for what looks a year or more without use so I can't open them to clean them properly or reload them (so as of yet have not been able to fire it).
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Cerwyn
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11073
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeSun Sep 09, 2012 12:02 pm

Hello Ammo,

Going by what you've written about your M4's cartridges, I am pretty certain that the cartridges are the main cause of your Feed/Extraction problems. To quote one of my replies to your "Cartridges Wanted" ad':-

" All too often owners forget to clean these thoroughly after every firing session. So much dirt and residue builds up on the Pin especially, it'll jam in cartridges stopping them extracting properly.

Next check to make is the cartridges themselves. Any dirt or corrosion inside these will create friction reducing blow back enough to stop extraction. Are the 0 rings on the piston /firing pin in good condition ? Any splits, cuts or other damage will alllow all gas pressure to leak past the 0 ring stopping blowback.


Are the caps in good condition?

If all's well, load the cartridges ensuring the 0 rings are lubed with silicone oil or grease. This is essential.

If this doesn't sort it, assemble the cartridges and load them into the mag. Insert the mag into the gun, pull back the charging handle and release it to push the first cartridge into the chamber. Don't squeeze the trigger, pull the charging handle back sharply. The cartridge should extract and eject cleanly. If it does, release the charging handle again and repeat the process until the mag's empty. If this works properly, there's every likelyhood your cartridges need a thorough clean and possibly new 0 rings too."

If the previous owner neglected to clean the cartridges after use, it's likely the modelgun's Detonator Chamber and Det. Pin were not cleaned either. Dirt builds up here very quickly and if not cleaned thoroughly will cause the Pin to jam in cartridges stopping the Feeding and Extracting.

Stripping the Chamber and Pin then cleaning them spotlessly clean will probably cure this problem BUT remember to repeat this process after 60 - 90 shots to avoid jams. In any case, they must be cleaned after every firing session.

You MAY be lucky and save some of your cartridges by following the Cleaning and Loading guides in the "Beginners Guides to Cartridges" category. The Vinegar and Bicarbonate of Soda cleaning method described is probably the best place to start.

Keep us posted please ?

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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Ammo
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Number of posts : 28
Age : 48
Location / Country : UK
Registration date : 2009-10-17

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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeSun Sep 09, 2012 4:35 pm

Hi Cerwyn

I had been away for the weekend so only just had a chance to get on here. I had a look at the M4 again today and fired a few cartridges off (I managed to salvage a few of them). The problem appears to be the bolt carrier. The cartridge pulls away as it's supposed to but after this happens it does not eject (get thrown out) the gun so that the next cartridge can load. Instead, the bolt carrier keeps hold of the used cartridge. I took a small video clip of this happening which I'll try upload later once I can get the cable to connect the phone to my laptop but basically everything seems to work great up until the cartridge is fired. The bolt carrier flies back, carries the spent cartridge back with it but the spent cartridge is not ejected from the port and so instead, the M4 tries to load a cartridge which the previous one is still in there, causing a jam.
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Cerwyn
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
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Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11073
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeMon Sep 10, 2012 10:23 am

Hi Ammo,

Glad to see you've managed to salvage some cartridges !
It sounds like the Ejector isn't working. I have an older ABS MGC XM177 which I think uses the same bolt arrangement as the HWABS types. IF i'm right, there'll be two claws on the bolt itself. Looking at the bolt as if looking through the ejection port, the claw nearest the port is the extractor. The one at the far side is the ejector. Check that the ejector claw is free to pivot and move easily. These can bend and jam in their locating groove. There's a metal flat bar that rests alongside the bolt carrier which is positioned in place as the bolt and charging handle are assembled into the upper receiver. This is part of the ejector system. If it's missing or damaged cartridges can't be ejected as they should


I don't have access to my scanner or any means of uploading new photos at the minute otherwise I'd photograph mine for you. Does my explanation make sense?

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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Ammo
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Ammo


Number of posts : 28
Age : 48
Location / Country : UK
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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeMon Sep 10, 2012 11:48 am

Hi Cerwyn.

You are indeed correct, there's two claws on the bolt. I had took it apart when I first noticed the issue and saw that there's the two claws in there. The extractor claw works fine but I had started to suspect that the ejector claw is where the problem lies but I have had no other bolts to compare it to so am unsure. Taking it out, the ejector claw moves up and down freely but I had noticed when I slowly loaded up the M4 just to see what's going on in the ejector port and the bolt, it doesn't seem the ejector claw is being pushed up to help eject the spent cartridge. The flat bar that you have mentioned is not something I have noticed so I'm starting to think that may be where the issue is. Is this flat bar fixed inside the M4 or does it come out with the bolt assembly when taking out the charging handle and bolt? I don't recall seeing this bar inside there (I had actually looked for something in there that probably pushed the ejector claw up when the bolt is pulled back/blown back but couldn't see anything in there).

I'll be at home tomorrow now so will have a closer look but I am starting to think that this is exactly where the issue may lie which is starting to sound like bad news in terms of being able to find a replacement for that part.
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MadMike
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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeMon Sep 10, 2012 12:21 pm

If the metal flat bar is missing, the gun won't eject properly! I think your gun is missing this part. I should have a spare one around somewhere, I will take a look. The metal bar prevents damage from the metal claw to the upper receiver, which is made out of plastic.

Sadly I do not have a picture of it right now,
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Ammo
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Number of posts : 28
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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeMon Sep 10, 2012 1:04 pm

Hi Mike. If you do have a spare one you are willing to part with I would be more than happy to purchase it from you, it'll be nice to have a working M4, lol. Smile I will try and get some pictures if I can at some point but this may not happen until tomorrow when I am back at home.
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MadMike
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Number of posts : 647
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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeMon Sep 10, 2012 3:34 pm

Hi mate! Between two meetings I had time to check my MGC M4A1. I took out the small metal plate and tried to cycle rounds manually. The model does exactly how yours does, extracting the round from the chamber, but not ejecting it. I think you are just missing that metal part.

I will attach a pic.

MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems DSCI0040

Just sent me a pm with your adress and I will send my extra part to you. If you like, I can include a paper copy of the manual and instructions.

Cerwyn, can you please move this to the problem section as "MGC M16/M4 extraction problem"?
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Ammo
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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeMon Sep 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Ah yes, there is no part like that in my M4 at all so as you said Mike, that is what the issue is. Thank you VERY much for taking the time to check this out on your M4 and for the spare part. I have sent you a PM with my name and address in there and a copy of the instructions and manual would also be a Godsend as I was missing a manual in the box.

Thank you very much for the help. Once it arrives I shall report back on here as to how it is going. Smile
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Cerwyn
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
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Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11073
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitimeTue Sep 11, 2012 11:17 am

Great news Ammo Exclamation

I'm glad that with Madmike's help we confirmed your M4's problem and better still, are able to get it fixed. This is what our forum's all about, helping each other out cheers

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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PostSubject: Re: MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems   MGC M4A1 CARBINE (BLACK) Feed & Eject Problems Icon_minitime

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