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 Mulberry Field Cartridges

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:20 pm

I've heard of these rounds and believe them to be available for a wide range of model guns from different manufacturers.
Has anyone used them?
Are they good PFC rounds or just dummy ones for display only?

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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:21 pm

Post by Mark

Hi Cerwin,

The Mulberry Field cartridges are availabe as both display dummys and CP style cap firing types. They seem to have a love/hate type of reaction sofar from the people that have used their CP cartridges. Their dummy cartridges as well as the required adaption kit (different detonator etc.) look real and they are perhaps the best cartridges of their type made currently. MGC made at one time, their own dummy cartridges that had interchangeable "bullets" that screwed into the cartridge case. From what I have heard, it seems that the Mulberry Field cartridges use 5mm caps like the Tanaka system. This can cause problems from the smaller components and the tinny O-ring likes to blow off and shred over a few shots.

I prefer the MGC CP as well as the Marushin PFC type cartridges over the Mulberry Field cartridges for both cost and I am not that concerened with the look of the cartridges as long as they work..
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:21 pm

mark wrote:
I am not that concerened with the look of the cartridges as long as they work..
Hi Mark,
Thank you very much for your info.
As your quote says, getting them to work is the important bit!
Some of the photos I'd seen had strange looking arrangements of casings, large springs and a 'bullet' but no obvious sign of how they worked.
As you say the MGC and Marushin rounds work well so better to stick with good gear.
Thanks again!
Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:22 pm

Post by Mark

cerwyn wrote:
mark wrote:
Some of the photos I'd seen had strange looking arrangements of casings, large springs and a 'bullet' but no obvious sign of how they worked.
These cartridges are intended as display dummys only. The spring is meant as a cushion for the movable primer to protect the firing pin and prevent wear to the firing mech.
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:23 pm

Gotcha! I can see how that works now, thanks Mark!

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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:37 pm

Post by Spencerman

I have a few of these, in varying calibers, and all are 7mm caps and the same sort of system as the MGC cartridge. I think that the rounds are fairly reliable, it is the damned conversion kits that are unreliable and will only fire a few shots before they start jamming every shot. One day someone will manage to get one of the conversion kits to work and will share the knowledge, then they will be great. They certainly look the part, and really are best left for presentation, in my opinion. The revolver cartridges may be a different kettle of fish, but I dont have any of those.
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:38 pm

Post by Mark

Oops, I was under the (false) impression that all of Mulberry Field's cartridges used 5mm caps. They do use the MGC CP system however which is usually excelent. They are neat cartridges but they are too expensive too fool with in my opinion.
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:39 pm

Post by Spencerman

In an mgc gun they probably are, but pop them in a Tanaka, P226 or USP (and maybe even Glock, although I have not got one of these and therefor not tried it) and they are awful. Bang, Jam, Bang, Jam, Bang, Jam. You get the picture. At first they seem to work fine. Put a mag through them without too much difficulty, but fire a few shots and then that is it. They stop working. I dont quite get why, and I know that Claymore has had the same problem with his. It is not through lack of cleaning or lubrication (although I will mention how great my Wa Shan models are for abuse and not needing to really look after them so well (I have tried not cleaning one at all, just to see), they are like the Energizer bunny, they just keep on going) as I am usually rather meticulous at cleaning and lubricating any of my guns, real or model, even if I havent used it, I guess that is just an old habit. Maybe Doc?

I would love to get some of these for a peacemaker, as they would really look the part, but I have yet to get a peacemaker.
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:40 pm

Post by Mark

I notice from time to time that I get cartridges that refuse to fire. At first I thought that it was the cap but apon disasembly, I discovered that most of the time the cap wasn't even touched.
The problem, I now know, is possibly caused by an airlock situation due to trapped air by the cap. Because the O-ring doesn't allow trapped air to escape and this acts as a cushion that effectively stops the piston from hitting the cap. Especially when the bolt or the slide is fairly light weight. The airlock effect can be somewhat alleviated by the proper use of silicone or grease.
Also, the Hudson piston has a air bleed hole that will eliminate the trapped air. But, the detonator needs to match the piston style closely so that none of the initial gas pressure is lost.
I have had good luck by "pre-setting" the piston by pushing down the piston so it just touches the cap. This will usually expose a cartridge that has trapped air when the piston is "spongy" or springs back.
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:41 pm

I spotted Mark's comments about airlocks within cartridges...
I've experienced this once or twice with 9mm mgc rounds in paticular.
Assembling the round, greasing the pin's o-ring and attempting to place it into the case will see it pop out again as if pressed hard against a spring.
Teasing the thing back out fully and pressing it back in again often solves it though.
I was given a tip when i bought my first Thompson (MGC, 1921). On assembly, push the pin and o-ring all the way in until it almost touches the cap. This worked fine, it's necessary anyway if you use a 7mm AND a 5mm cap at the same time otherwise the 5mm cap falls away and probably will turn sideways resulting in a total missfire. I was using 2 caps simply because I wasn't lubricating the rounds well enough. A standard 7mm cap didn't have enough kick to push the dry internals back, 2 caps did, but obviously proper lubing means the round works as it should with a single cap.
Another problem with airlocks happens with marui rounds. These are one piece rounds, having the detonator pin cast into the base of the round. Caps are pushed down into the round, charge side facing the pin. There's no other means of sealing or closing the round so the cap does everything. To achieve blowback and automatic ejection and reloading, the cap has to seal tightly otherwise the gases leak, silicone grease is a must to ease the cap down the round during loading and to lubricate it's travel backwards after firing but the grease and tightly fitting caps can create airlocks which lead to regular misfires.
WD40 or similar seems to work slightly better but it's really difficult keeping the charge dry.
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PostSubject: Re: Mulberry Field Cartridges   Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:41 pm

Post by Mark

The MGC, Tanaka O-ring design inherently traps air as the primer and the cap seals the bottom of the cartridge and the air that was trapped at the top of the cartridge when the piston is placed on the case mouth. This trapped air is sometimes difficult to bleed out. The primer can be pushed in a little to re-leave the pressure that the trapped air creates as the piston is depressed.

When air is trapped the detonator cannot usually strike the cap with enough force to detonate it. This causes many of the fullauto firing problems that I have experienced as the trapped air slows down the somewhat lighter bolts (like the ABS MGC M16 series) to the point that they stop firing. This is a problem that can be somewhat alleviated by hand cycling the loaded cartridges through the action once before firing them.
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms
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