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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:57 pm

This continues on from a thread that started about mag loaders, but got a bit off-topic.

Several posts ago, I mentioned that modelgun magazines should always be stored empty, to avoid damaging the spring.
I couldn't remember the correct term for this, I suggested "De-Springing" but wasn't sure.
I've had this clarified now and would maintain that any modelgun should have it's magazines emptied, when not in use.

I stress here that I've not ever owned a real firearm, a 12Bore Shotgun was the closest I got but got this info from an old mate that served several years in HM Forces.
Any ex-servicemen out there that can either confirm or de-bunk this then please do so !
The British Army would issue an order to troops, sentries, etc to "Ease Springs" when the firearm was not required for immediate use. This involved emptying the magazine and ensuring the gun was not cocked.
If out in the field and in danger of being shot at, then obviously the weapons are loaded and ready for use.
This was done as a precaution as some weapons, Browning semi auto's apparently could fail to feed rounds if left loaded for a day or two as the mag spring would have sagged.
It may be a very rare occurence, but would you take the chance that your gun wouldn't fire if somebody's coming at you?

American troops were trained differently it seems at the time, and didn't put any emphasis on "Easing Springs", maybe that explains the pre loaded crates of M16 magazines?

Based on that, and on the fact that so many little things can jam up a model gun and spoil your fun, maybe easing springs on model guns might eliminate one potential problem.

The only weapon that could be safely left fully loaded for long periods is a revolver, as it doesn't rely on springs!

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:57 pm

Post by Mark

Cerwyn wrote:
American troops were trained differently it seems at the time, and didn't put any emphasis on "Easing Springs", maybe that explains the pre loaded crates of M16 magazines?
Interesting. I have never seen any thing like a crate of pre-loaded M16 magazines. They might exist but for some reason, I doubt it..Is there any pictures of these crates?
The real firearms magazines with their quality springs rarely (if ever) take a set to them and they will continue to work for the life of the magazine. I remember seeing on another firearms forum a Colt 1911 magazine (originally loaded in 1918!!) that had been in the same family since the 1930's and never had been un-loaded until they decided to shoot the 1911 in 2001!! The gun, cartridges as well as the magazine worked flawlessly when fired..
Now, I do believe that the modelgun magazine springs are far softer (material wise) and will definately take a set to them and weaken them to the point that they cannot work as intended. The fact that the modelguns work with such weak spring rates as the available power levels are low that the springs should not be subjected to any undue strain such as leaving the magazines loaded for long periods of time..
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:58 pm

Post by Madmike

I was told by a man I know who was a US soldier here in Germany back in the late 80s that they received their ammo for the M16 combat ready on stripper clips, but that they had to load their mags themselves. They were ordered not to leave any mags behind, as well as not to jettison any other used gear. He thinks that this goes back to the Vietnam experience and that this shall prevent any gear from falling into enemy supply.

I read on the internet that there were 1911 mags kept in National Guard supply storages loaded for over 30 years, but the mags as well as the ammo were still working fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:59 pm

Post by Mark

The M16 magazines where and still are of course, made out of aluminum alloy and they are easily damaged when dropped or handled roughly when they are loaded. That might be the main reason that they are not issued pre-loaded.
MadMike wrote:
They were ordered not to leave any mags behind, as well as not to jettison any other used gear. He thinks that this goes back to the Vietnam experience and that this shall prevent any gear from falling into enemy supply.

Exactly!
I usually don't leave my magazines loaded for many reasons that don't include weakening the springs.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:00 pm

Post by gavin

thats intresting mark as i have heard of a few storys of old 1911 that have been found after old peole have died and finding a loaded 1911 ond it working perfecly maybe it works fine due to it beig single stack
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:01 pm

Post by Mark

No, I don't think that it matters what type of magazine that is left loaded its just the spring tension. I never leave my modelgun magazines loaded as their springs can be damaged.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:01 pm

Post by Claymore

cerwyn the term "ease springs" actually refers to unloading the gun, after removing the mag you show clear by pulling the bolt or slide back you then get the command ease springs which means allow the bolt or slide to go forward and then you pull the trigger.
So its not about the mag and we never kept the mags full always stored empty due to the possible spring problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:02 pm

Ahhhaaaaaa... So that's the answer! At last I've got the explanation for it!
Thanks for that Claymore! (and everybody else!)
The original question about leaving modelgun mags magazines loaded or not for long periods is answered now too I think... Definately Not in that case, springs are too weak...

The issue about M16 magazines arriving preloaded may have actually been confusion between stripper clips and box mags then? I think it safe to assume that magazines were not preloaded.

It's interesting that Colt 1911 mags would work without probems after years of storage, loaded up though, must be damned good springs!

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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:02 pm

Post by richard jones

I have somewhere an original Vietnam dated cardboard box with either 5 or 7 20rd M16 mags.The mags were always issued empty.Rounds would come in bandoliers in stripper clips to be manualy loaded.I believe the bandoliers came in crates.

I have dummy rounds permanently in every gun i own-be it deact,replica or model gun-some havent been removed in years and seem to do no harm as far as i can see.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:03 pm

Post by fightdesigner

While we're on the topic- anybody tried replacing model gun mag springs with real gun mag springs? I've got a model gun uzi that has a really weak spring (amongst other things needing work- movie director left the damn thing sitting in the rain, crap like that) and I've wondered about replacing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:04 pm

Post by richard jones



Would an original UZI mag complete not just fit???????????
Less hassle than changing the spring
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:04 pm

Post by Claymore

A real uzi mag will fit but they need a few alterations made kickback can advise on this as he did mine, you can also put a ingram mag spring in i have tried it and it worked
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:05 pm

Post by Mark


Actually guys, the real Uzi magazines will not fit the late, plastic lowers (Without lots of mods) that Marushin thoughtfully equipped their Uzi's with. The earlier, stamped steel versions will typically accept an original Uzi magazine but, even these lowers vary over Marushin's Uzi production run. Some of the late, stamped steel magazine housings are too small to fit an original Uzi magazine into.
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PostSubject: Re: Magazine Springs   Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:05 pm

Post by Madmike

A real UZI magazine (25 or 32 rd) will fit into the late Marushin kit UZI with ABS lower. I tried that and it is great for display. But that is all. It will not feed carts as the bolt fails to take them out of the magazine, so definitly the feed lips will need work, and maybe the spring too as a real UZI mag has a very strong spring compared to a Marushin UZI mag.
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