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 Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:11 pm

Post by MT01

Hi all,

Hoping someone can help

I have an MGC Smith and Wesson 459 and want to get some more PFC rounds for it that take 5mm cap. The rounds for this are smaller than 9mm (in fact using my old trusty shatterproof ruler I believe the rounds are 8.5mm by 24mm).

From looking around various websites I can't find the S&W459 rounds, and can only guess that I should be looking at MGC Luger, or MCG Ingram rounds, and possibly MGC Sig P210?

My guesswork is based on reading through the previous posts, and by looking at various pictures trying to match the shape - not very scientific I agree. (e.g. these rounds are smooth, don't have the fake lip between the bullet and casing and unscrew about halfway down)

Does anyone know for sure if the rounds I mentioned are actually the same round? Makes sense for MGC to have stuck to one design as much as possible. Can anyone recommend any alternatives?

Thanks
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:11 pm

Post by Mark

If I remember, the MGC 459 uses the CP style Mac11 cartridges. These cartridges are fairly plentiful and they of course, use the 5mm caps. The MGC Mac11 shared the same sized cartridges since MGC introduced them for the S&W M39/59 in the 1980's.

In fact, the earlier "open" cartridge S&W M39/59's can be converted to use the later CP cartridges with a simple detonator change.

The SIG 210 and the Luger cartridges are too small to work as they are fairly tiny and they are sometimes hard to get. The fact that the MGC cartridge supply is going to dry up soon due to MGC's second collapse is really sad due to the fact that MGC cartridges where so hard to find in quantities the last time that they had gone bankrupt.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:12 pm

Post by MT01

Thanks Mark

Wow - and I thought the rounds that I had were pretty small already - didn't realise that the 210 and Luger would be even smaller?

Yeah its a real shame about MGC and also the VCRB. I'm fairly new to modelguns in the scheme of things and am gutted I won't be able to collect as many models as I want. I have decided however that I'm going to get a Thompson next while I still can.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:13 pm

Hiya,

If you're after a Thompson check out the reviews on the forum and grab yourself a MGC 1921 model Thompson in either Military or Chigago versions. It's worthgetting a drum magazine anyway as you can stick 39 rds in it and let rrrrrrip!
You might have guessed I really like my MGC Thompsons, it is a cracker of a modelgun and you really should grab one!

Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:13 pm

Post by MT01

Hi,

Cheers for the advice. You've definitely swung me towards the MGC as this seems more reliable than the Hudson (though i would really love to get both - if only money grew on trees!).
I now have some quotes on the Chicago on the way from the HK suppliers (I take it Francky does not do these as they are full metal and not available in Japan?)

Can't wait.
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:14 pm

Hello MT,

It's worth asking Francky though, to be honest I hadn't thought the all zinc models like the MGC Thompsons weren't available in Japan. It never occured to me!
HK dealers like Guys&Guns have the Chigago 1921's at a very good price just now for instance. I've bought a couple of pistols off them in the past, very fast efficient, no problems at all.

MGC's Thompson is a good solid model and works really well as long as it's clean, oiled and the rounds are loaded correctly. You won't be dissapointed! Look after the zinc bolt though, it's a tad soft but zinc is!
I have always fancied an M1A1 variant but Hudson's offering doesn't have the best reputation for reliable firing, as no doubt you've read elsewhere on here.

If you're not mechanically minded and need the help and backup of a dealer, check out the 2 UK dealers. Modelguns.co.uk have the occasional reasonably priced Thompson (used) and his aftersales is very good as long as you bought the gun off him.
Modelguncollector have several Thompsons listed too.

If you can handle a spanner though there's plenty of help and advice to be had here!

Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:15 pm

Post by MT01

Hi Cerwyn,

Funny, when I looked on Francky's website he doesn't have the MGC Thompson - which I presume was down to something I read on this forum that said full metal guns were not lawful in Japan.

BUT when I looked again just now, he does have the Hudson thompson available which is all metal (and wood of course). Maybe the full metal thing only applies to pistols? or maybe I misunderstood what i read? Think i'll just ask Francky next time I order.

Anyways just placed an order for the MGC with GnG as its looks like a v.good price and i'm too impatient to get my hands on it!
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:18 pm

Post by Mark

Guys, the Japanese can have all metal handguns,rifles and submachine guns. There are some confusing rules on this but, they can still have/make them. All of the metal handguns (with the exception of the Hudson Scorpion for some reason) must be gold colored for identification purposes. The rifles/submachine guns can have any finish.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:19 pm

Post by MT01

Thanks for clearing that up.
I should have known really, as Japan is where most of these things are made!
Thing that confused me was the full metal Wa Shan models - but now I understand that these are made outside Japan which is why they can't be sold there. doh
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PostSubject: Re: Substitute for MGC S&W 459 Cartridges?   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:19 pm

Post by Mark

The Wa Shans are made in Taiwan not Japan due to their finish and their construction does not follow Japanese law(s) so, they cannot be sold in Japan.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms
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