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 Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:29 pm

Post by 8ace

Hi guys

I'm looking to get some compatible cartridges for my Wa shan Colt .45 auto and i was wondering if anybody has had any experience with other manufactures cartridges.

MGC SIG P220 cartridges work better than the originals in my Wa Shan Beretta M9 and I’d like the Colt to work as well.

I have tried the cartridges from my Marushin Colt government but they are to big and it's almost as if the Wa Shan has been modelled on the 10mm auto cartridge (see attached drawing) not the .45

Any ideas ?????


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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:29 pm

Post by Spencerman

I think that they may be like the older .45 cartridges, similar to the ones supplied with the Brown Maxi Comp version, but I do not any to try in mine. I keep on meaning to, but never seem to get round to it. I am surprised that you have a problem with them though, as mine functions absolubtly seamlessly, better than any of my others in fact! I only want more because I always need more.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:30 pm

Post by Mark

They do sound like the early MGC .45 cartridges. I will have to measure my cartridges and see if they are anywhere close. If the earlier MGC .45 cartridges will work, Dentrinity has them in stock.
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:31 pm

Post by 8ace

Yep we always NEED more.

The Wa Shan Colt works similar to my Marushin M16

Load it with 1x7mm (with lube) + 5mm cap and it works ok for the first clip getting worse as the caps get dirty but load it with 1x7mm cap (with lube) or 1x7mm + 5mm cap (dry) and it struggles to eject the cartridge every time. Unlike my M9 which works with 1x7mm (dry) every time.

I have measured the ID of the cartridges

Wa Shan Colt .45 = 6.8mm
Marushin Colt .45 = 6.8mm
Marushin M 16 5.56 = 6.75mm
MGC M9 9mm = 6.9mm

Which would explain why the caps are tight in the Wa Shan and Marushin cartridges? (i haven't checked all of my M16 cartridges yet)

Also in the MGC cartridge the cap doesn’t move but in the Marushin and Wa Shan the cap slides up with the expanding gas, so I might see if I can enlarge the ID of the M16 cartridge to see if it cycles better.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:32 pm

Post by Mark

Interesting 8ace!

I too wonder if the ID of the cartridges does infact slow the action to the point that they cause jams etc. I would be careful not to enlarge the ID too much as the restriction might be engineered in. If it isn't well then, perhaps Marushin's tooling might be worn to some point that the ID of the cartridges has changed.

I will check some of my cartridges to see if they have small ID's. It might be a good idea to make a rod that has been turned and polished to the 6.9 to 7mm dia to fit into the cartridges in order to save time. The internal finish of the cartridge bore might need to be polished to eliminate friction and cut down on the build up of residue from the fired caps.
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:32 pm

Post by Spencerman

I have no problem with my 1911 Wa Shan with 1 x 7mm cap only in each cartridge. It fires and ejects extremely reliably. I have only ever had one jam where it caught the escaping round in the port. Every other round has flown out, literally. I have never tried it with two caps, and dont think that I would need to at the moment. Cant beat the factory loads that come with the 9mm Wa Shan models though.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:33 pm

Post by Mark

I will have to get one of the waShan modelguns they are sounding better and better everytime that I read about them.
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:46 pm

Post by Spencerman

Not just one. I have four so far, and when I strike oil I plan to buy more. They are top of my shopping list, a P220 and another two 1911's just to start. Next maybe a PPK but then I could get another 1911. Now I am getting flustered. I just want more of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:47 pm

Post by Mark

I am not really sure just which of the WaShan guns to get first. Perhaps the 1911? or the Beretta?
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:47 pm

Post by allenb

Just a word of warning - my Wa Shan P220 broke after little use.

The trigger linkage snapped in two - very poor quality metal used.

I now have an early MGC P220 which I think the Wa Shan is copied from but I haven't yet seen if the linkage is the same - but I suspect it is. If so I'll see if I can get a spare for the Wa Shan.

The Wa Shan worked lovely - right up to when it broke
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:48 pm

Post by Mark

Your trigger linkage must have been cast zinc? Or? Can you post a picture of the broken part(s)?
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:49 pm

Post by Spencerman

I personally favour the 1911 over the Beretta, but my favourite, for some strange reason, is the Glock. It is wierd because it is FULL metal construction, wheras the frame is supposed to be plastic. Maybe that is why I like it, because it feels much more solid than many other guns for this reason. I dont know, but I have two of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:49 pm

Post by allenb

Yep definatley cast - you could see the crystal like structure in the broken bits.

Hopefully if I can get an MGC equivalent it'l be proper metal!

I'll see if I can find the box - I should get around to fixing it!
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:50 pm

Post by gavin

mark you where talking about getting the m19 wa shan makes the m19

http://www.gunsnguys.com/home_ie5_1024.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:51 pm

Post by Mark

Spencerman wrote:
I personally favour the 1911 over the Beretta, but my favourite, for some strange reason, is the Glock. It is wierd because it is FULL metal construction, wheras the frame is supposed to be plastic. Maybe that is why I like it, because it feels much more solid than many other guns for this reason. I dont know, but I have two of them. Twisted Evil
Yes, I agree that the Wa Shan "Glock" is weird due to the all zinc frame! I noted that the Tanaka Glocks HW (or ABS) frame will interchange so, that makes it worth buying it first. Besides, the Dentrinity Wa Shan Glock is priced right so I will get one for my first Wa Shan.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:52 pm

Post by Mark

allenb wrote:
Yep definatley cast - you could see the crystal like structure in the broken bits.
Hopefully if I can get an MGC equivalent it'l be proper metal!
I'll see if I can find the box - I should get around to fixing it!
Zinc eh? That's not always a good sign.. But, the Marushin Beretta M84 is also known for a weak zinc alloy trigger connector that breaks when the gun is fired with the double action mech. So, I doubt that it is purely a Wa Shan problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Post by gavin

a metal glock seems like a crap idea replicas are ment to be like there originals
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:53 pm

Post by Spencerman

When you think about it, full metal Glock is no more stupid than full plastic one. Although it would be nice to get an accurate replica without the need to buy two different models.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:54 pm

Post by gavin

if you think about its no worse than an abs 1911
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:55 pm

Post by 8ace

I have measured all 20 of my Marushin M16 cartridges and they are between 6.7mm and 6.75mm so the next plan is to get one enlarged to see if it makes any difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:55 pm

Post by Mark

8ace wrote:
I have measured all 20 of my Marushin M16 cartridges and they are between 6.7mm and 6.75mm so the next plan is to get one enlarged to see if it makes any difference.
I suppose that you could get a Dremel with a polishing attachment and polish the inside of the cartridges if the proper sized finishing reamer isn't available. I am sure that the enlarged cartridge ID might help somewhat.
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:56 pm

Post by Mark

8ace wrote:
Mark,
Did you manage to measure your cartridges to see if they are the early MGC .45 type?
Yes, I just did! My findings where interesting to say the least. The early CP ".45 ACP" cartridges measure:
1. Cartridge length: 28.12 mm
2. Rim diameter: 10.99 mm
3. Case diameter 10.99 mm
4. Detonator clearance hole: 6.23 mm
So, all in all, I would say that the WaShan cartridge design was heavily influenced by the MGC CP cartridges. I would think that with minor adjustments, that the early MGC .45 ACP cartridges will work in the WaShan .45
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:57 pm

Post by 8ace

Thanks Mark I'll get some ordered today
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:57 pm

Post by Mark

Hopefully, they will be the cartridges that you need for the WaShan. that will help others with the .45
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PostSubject: Re: Wa Shan .45 Auto Cartridges   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:58 pm

Post by 8ace

Ordered some old style MGC .45 cartridges from francky. They are a bit long but I have shortened them by 1mm and now they fit the barrel chamber perfectly and i fires like a dream.
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