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 Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:02 pm

Following my discussions with a Japanese modelgun enthusiast, here's my most recent try at achieving Muzzle Flash during firing.


Modelgun is an old MGC STEN MkIII, cartridges are KSC 9mm Luger C.P. 



Click on Image to View
(if you have problems viewing, click on "download" on right side of Photobucket page)

.... almost there, I'll keep on trying  Very Happy Very Happy Wink

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ljerr2
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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:14 pm

Shocked
cool! Great job Cerwyn.
Are you willing to share your newly acquired secrets????  :Smilie  68: :Smilie  68:

J
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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:59 pm

Very Happy Thanks Jerrod  Very Happy It's getting there slowly ! I'm obviously hoping for every cartridge to show Muzzle Flash, not just a few as I'm seeing with STEN so far.


I've used 2 methods so far, the first being with my MP38. Both methods need a Detonator Pin with as little restriction as possible for hot gasses to vent from cartridge and through the barrel.
My MP38 uses a Det.Pin almost identical to the type used when converting MGC MP40, Stirling and STEN to fire P220 cartridges. 


 

These usually have 2 holes drilled through the Brass Ring to allow smoke to vent through. First modification in to Drill as many decent sized holes through the ring to make venting easier. 
This is an example seen on a Japanese site recently. 






I did try one with a 2mm dia hole bored through the pin itself but found the tip of the pin prone to deforming so I'm staying with just the vented brass rings now.


Next comes Cartridge loading  Very Happy ***I will post some photos of loading method later***


My MP38 uses KSC 9mm Luger C.P. carts with 1 x 7mm MG cap. The only addition was a very small amount of Magnesium powder dropped onto the cap. 


My MGC STEN also uses KSC cartridges but for this I loaded slightly differently. The first 7mm cap is inserted normally, with the addition of a very small amount of Magnesium powder.
Insert the Piston. Make sure the top of the piston is dry, i.e. no oil or grease.
Push the Piston into the cartridge about 3mm or so.
Carefully take the Red (MG caps) powder charge out the plastic body by gently prising it out with the tip of a knife. With care, the Red charge will pop out in one piece
Place the Red powder charge onto the top of the Piston.
Add a small amount of Magnesium powder on top of the charge.
To seal in the Magnesium powder, I have found that Magician's Flash Paper works very well.
Using an 8mm dia hole punch, cut out a circle of Flash Paper and gently push it into the cartridge.
Replace the cartridge top.
Try keeping the cartridges upright as much as possible as the paper isn't guaranteed to hold the Magnesium powder inside the cartridge.


Load the Magazine and Fire away  Wink Muzzle Flash can be very effective. I think the ones that fired without flashing had broken or crumbled Red charges in them (on top of the piston) or possibly the Flash Paper had crumpled up stopping the Detonator Pin striking the Red charge.
Practice should sort it.


Only use each cartridge once. Magnesium powder is extremely dirty and even though it burns, it still manages to leave black "soot" and a gritty deposit inside the cartridge and over the Piston an 0 Ring. This dirt will affect cartridge performance and firing if loaded again without thorough cleaning.


N.B. PLEASE note that Flash Paper is extremely flammable and burns very quickly leaving no ash. Similarly, Magnesium powder burns very quickly. Do NOT compress these components into tightly sealed such as the cartridge case as there is a risk of explosion if the Piston was to stick in the cartridge bore.


The advice I was given, and to which I'm complying with is to only use this method with Open Bolt, Metal models. Once I've mastered this method, there may be possibilities of trying it in closed bolt models but only when I know it is Safe.

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JatiMatic
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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:11 pm

Cerwyn,

your Sten performs amazing; thank's for sharing.

Regards,

Jati
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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:40 am

JatiMatic wrote:
Cerwyn,

your Sten performs amazing; thank's for sharing.

Regards,

Jati
Thanks very much Jati'  Very Happy
This particular STEN was bought as a "Non Firing" replica a few years ago. A previous owner had attempted to fire Blank rounds with it with disastrous consequences. The original Zinc chamber had blown apart and probably blew the barrel and front half of the chamber out of the gun.
When I received it, the chamber was crudely pinned together.
Restoring it to correct Cap firing condition meant making a complete new Chamber and Detonator Pin from Stainless Steel and a new Bolt too as the original was damaged.
At the time MGC P220 cartridges were unobtainable but KSC carts were plentiful so it was set up to take them. All the machining and repair work was carried out by 8ace to whom I'm eternally grateful.  
It does fire really well. Usually it'll fire a full magazine in one long burst without stoppages as long as the carts are clean and in good condition.
Muzzle Flash adds a little more enjoyment to the experience Very Happy Once I've mastered the muzzle flash effect it should light up with every round (hopefully)    

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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:38 am

Thats lookin good Cerwyn, you are definitely making progress on the flash effect. The only problem with it is the time it takes to load the rounds, its time consuming enough without the faff of mag powder etc but worth it for good flash especially when doing a vid.
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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:49 am

claymore wrote:
Thats lookin good Cerwyn, you are definitely making progress on the flash effect. The only problem with it is the time it takes to load the rounds, its time consuming enough without the faff of mag powder etc but worth it for good flash especially when doing a vid.
Thanks claymore  Very Happy


You've hit the nail on the head there, it does take longer to load up cartridges, plus the fact it takes twice as many caps too.
Arguably it is worth the effort for Videos if every cartridge gives a Flash and yes, there's a lot of extra "Fun" factor firing a fully automatic modelgun when it produces lots of flash like this.
Most of the enjoyment has come from the challenge of actually achieving the effect though. It's taken a long time experimenting with different methods.
I must thank Japan's MrModelgun for his invaluable help here Very Happy 


I've a bit more to do to get it right, so keep your eyes open for more videos soon.  

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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:11 am

Some really interesting stuff Cerwyn- I'm amazed at the reliability of your Sten! Look forward to seeing more
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PostSubject: Re: Muzzle Flash Experiments: MGC STEN MkIII   Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:25 am

Thanks Vyking, I'm still working on achieving good muzzle flash and will certainly keep posting my results and findings.


This particular MGC STEN does fire very reliably. Most of the old steel MGC models perform well in fairness as long as everything is set up correctly. Cartridge condition and cleanliness is paramount.
This STEN has a steel bolt, custom stainless steel Chamber and is set up to use KSC 9mm Luger carts. Other than those changes, and a custom made Finger Guard in front of he Ejection Port, it's in it's original well worn 40 year old faded factory blued finish. I'm tempted to re-blue it but quite like its' well used look.  
I have another one which I've re finished with Satin Black paint rather than "Blued" finish. It too has a steel bolt, steel chamber but is set up for P220 cartridges. It also fires really well as long as cartridges are in good condition.  

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