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 MGC68 MP40 ... Registry

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:10 pm

Post by Mark
If you are lucky enough to have one of these fine modelguns, I would like to start an registry for these models. As they are considered by many to be the number one collectable MGC modelgun. MGC produced these unique modelguns since late? 1967? to 1977 There are many variations of the MGC MP40 due to production/material costs and other reasons. In the short time that I have been studying this modelgun, I have noticed a few variations such as the color of the blued parts and sanding/machining/stamping marks on various parts.

So, if you don't mind sharing your MGC's information that applies, I would appreciate it!

1. The serial number:

This number can be found with or without the "No." prefix. It can also be located on the left or right side of the barrel. It can be located on the resting bar or elsewhere on the barrel. I assume that MGC started this serial number at 0000 and each of the MP40's had their own unique serial number. This of course, remains to be seen at this point. Perhaps sometime during mid to late production there is a chance that MGC dropped the individual serial numbers. So, it may appear that not all MGC MP40's will have the serial number.

Please note the serial numbers placement area.

2. The type of magazine housing:

Early: No seam, one piece-stamped steel assy.

late: These are usually a two piece stamped steel assembly with a seam on the top that holds the two pieces together.

Also, please note the number of visible spot welds on the top straps.

The color of the magazine housings seems to vary from dark blue to a light gold color. If possible, please note the color of the housing and parts.

3. The bolt type:

Type one. Typically, this is an early style bolt, with a center mounted, ejector slot. These bolts have a noticeably reduced diameter body. (for weight?) Usually these bolts are made out of fairly hard zinc alloy and they usually have a nice dark blue finish. The stamped and folded, steel extractor is usually a dark blue color.

Type two. late, offset ejector slot. These have a slightly reduced body diameter and these weigh considerably more than the earlier bolts. These bolts are made with a softer zinc alloy. These bolts, much like the earlier bolts, have a nice dark blue finish. The early bolts rarely have the feed rib/bolt face "angle milled" off to prevent cartridges from feeding.

These mid/late bolts will, quite often feature a milled, angle cut on their side. These cuts are in theory, presumably for weight control purposes. The stamped steel, extractor typically has a gold finish. These Mid/Late bolts more often than not will have their bolt feed ribs/face milled at an angle that prevents them from being used to fire caps.

Type three. Very late (last of the MGC "68" MP40 production?) with an offset ejector slot. These bolts possibly have other small detail differences. Sadly, I don't have enough information on these last production bolts at this point. Possibly all of these MP40's had their bolt faces/ribs milled off as the last MGC MP40's where possibly all exported from Japan in the 1977-79 period.

4. Ejector:

Early/mid production: center mounted, zinc alloy, with a thin blade shape. This type is very weak as the thin blade breaks off easily and, they are hard to replace.

Mid/Late: offset mounted reinforced post zinc alloy. This type is far stronger and it will take lots of abuse compared to the earlier version.

5. Recoil assembly:

Early/mid production: small diameter spring in a blued, two piece, drawn steel, telescoping tube.

Late production: large-receiver interior diameter recoil spring without two piece telescoping tube.

6. barrel trunion:

Early: plain unfinished, zinc alloy

Mid/late: blued or chromed zinc alloy

7. Receivers:

Early "solid" tube without cut below the barrel trunion.

Mid production: solid/cut behind magazine housing.

Late: cut with two, small holes drilled in the receiver tube just below the barrel trunion.

The receivers can be found with several different tints (or colors) varying from a smooth dark blue to a purple/gold color/tint. The theory is that either the bluing solution or the cleaning process became contaminated during production and the receivers along with other smaller parts ended up with a gold/purple color due to this contamination.

8. Grip assy:

Early: "Made in Japan" on trigger guard

Late: "Japan" on trigger guard.

9. Muzzle nut:

Early: Machined, non-threaded pressed on, usually with a blued steel finish

Mid/Late: Machined, non-threaded pressed on, with a typical gold color.

10. Trunnion screws:

Early: Black oxide finished allen bolt with a small head/shank.

Late: Black oxide finished allen bolt with a large head/shank.

11. Forearm

Early: Dark or light Brown color

Mid/Late: Black


Examples:


My Early MGC "68" MP40:

1. Serial # NO.3824 left side by barrel nut (not muzzle nut)

2. Magazine housing: no seam, blued.

3. Bolt type: type one blued.

4. center mounted blade

5. tube type

6. plain

7. solid

8. "Made in Japan"

9. Blued.

10. Early small.

11. Dark Brown


My mid/late MGC "68" MP40

1. Serial # 17418 on front of resting bar right hand side.

2. Seamed type. With three spot welds, blued.

3. Type two bolt. blued

4. offset.

5. Tube type

6. chromed

7. cut (no drilled holes)

8. "Japan"

9. gold.

10. late large.

11. Black
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Last edited by mark on Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:59 am; edited 7 times in total


Last edited by Cerwyn on Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:11 pm

Post by Doc

Ok this is good although I may just get hung as 3 of mine are no longer PFC.

My first one
1 Serial : 18569 on right side of metal part of barrel resting bar
2 mag housing : seam two spot welds per strap , purple/blueing
3 Bolt : type two black finish, face milled at 45% gold ejector
4 Ejector : Late type offset
5 Recoil : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Black type drilled to deactivate
7 Receiver : cut below trunnion and behing mag housing and drilled
8 Grip : late "Japan" on trigger guard
9 Muzzle nut Blued steel

This gun was a nice condition although De-milled and open barrel so it was restored and ended up for re-enacting in 9mm
Barrel is the parkerised look

My second one
1 Serial : 09673 on right side of metal part of barrel resting bar
2 Mag housing : No seam blued
3 Bolt : Type 2 but had been polished originally blued
4 Ejector late type offset
5 Recoil : Tube Type
6 Trunnion : normal
7 Reciever : Uncut
8 Grip : "Made in Japan" under trigger guard
9 Muzzle nut Blued Steel

This one has an open barrel too parkerised look

Third one
1 Parkerised type open barrel but no serial number at all
2 magazine housing : No seam Blued
3 Bolt : type two
4 Ejector : late type offset
5 Recoil : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Chromed
7 Receiver : Uncut
8 Grip : "made in Japan"
9 Muzzle Nut : blued Steel

Latest one
1 Open barrel but again no serial number , this barrel is shiny black finish
2 Mag housing : No Seam Blued
3 Bolt : Type two
4 Ejector : Late Type offset
5 Recoil Tube : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Chromed
7 Receiver : Uncut
8 Grip : "Made in Japan"
9 Muzzle Nut Blued Steel

Additional info Mark.

I also have another spare Open barrel for one of these , it had the later black finish, but has the serial number # No .1129 on the left side just in front of the barrel nut, it also has "made in Japan" on the left side of the lower metal part of the barrel resting bar.

Another point is I think early ones have much smaller hex head screws that went into the trunnion, both smaller head and thread size.

Most of the ones imported to the UK in the 80s seem to have cut /drilled receivers , milled off bolt faces and drilled trunnions and solid barrels . some I have seen also have gold coloured shoulder stock pieces ...nice !!
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:11 pm

Post by Mark

Thanks for the information Doc!

I have one barrel that also lacks the serial number and it is a late plugged version.



I also have another spare Open barrel for one of these , it had the later black finish, but has the serial number # No .1129 on the left side just in front of the barrel nut, it also has "made in Japan" on the left side of the lower metal part of the barrel resting bar. Weird! that's cool! I have not observed that version yet. It sounds like a very early barrel.

Another point is I think early ones have much smaller hex head screws that went into the trunnion, both smaller head and thread size. Interesting! I totally skipped over that one! Now that you mention it My early does have the smaller screws..


Most of the ones imported to the UK in the 80s seem to have cut /drilled receivers , milled off bolt faces and drilled trunnions and solid barrels . some I have seen also have gold coloured shoulder stock pieces ...nice !!

The cut/drilled MP40's are unfortunately, common here too. I think that it had to do with the everchanging rules and regulations in the 1968-1980's The solid barrels seem to be less encountered here thankfully. Hmm..gold colored stock parts??
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:12 pm

Post by Claymore

No Doc you wont get hung for having converted them to fire blanks, oh no!! you get hung for having 3, do you really need that many couldn't one just find its way into my hands.

That said, hope to have one soon and will post details
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:13 pm

Post by Mark

I hope to get a good history of the MGC MP40 with your help guys. So, any MGC"68" MP40 information is appreciated especially the specifics, like the serial number. The MGC MP40 is a fascinating model and there are many surviving examples out there. My mid/late is in like new condition and was purchased in 1971, by the original owner. Its bolt face shows no evidence of wear. So, there are many nice examples out there to study..
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:13 pm

Post by Doc

I`m doing some repair work on a fellow re-enactors MP40 , seemed a good time to add the info here

1 Open barrel serial number right side of barrel resting bar 14419
2 Mag housing : No Seam Blued
3 Bolt : unknown
4 Ejector : Late Type offset
5 Recoil Tube : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Unknown
7 Receiver : Uncut
8 Grip : " Japan"
9 Muzzle Nut unknown because its missing

claymore , has yours arrived yet ?

DOC
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:14 pm

Post by Mark

Thanks for more MGC "68" info Doc! I can always use more..
Doc wrote:
9 Muzzle Nut unknown because its missing
Doc, I might post my solution to the missing muzzle nut(s) soon..
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:15 pm

Post by Claymore

Right details of mine and i hope that i have these right

1. serial No 08090 this is on the right side of the barrel, metal part of the rest where the fake pin is

2. chrome trunnion

3. offset ejector

4. mag housing is the overlap type

5. bolt is late (type 2 i think) with offset ejector

6. steel tube recoil assembly

7 receiver is early type uncut

8.grip assy "made in Japan"

9.trunnion screws small

10. muzzle nut early blued steel

Trouble is mark i think old parts are put with new and vice cers to get a comlete working model these days so to get a true original spec one may be hard
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:15 pm

Post by Mark

Thanks for the addition to the registry claymore!

It does sound like you have a mismatching MGC "68" there! That, or the factory was using up their oldstock of parts...More than likely, you have a "68" that was put together recently. It really doesn't matter really as it is an MGC MP40!! Still, it does sound like a late/early version to me at least. I am sure that Doc has seen a few of these over the years.

I think that MGC might have had some early parts as well as late parts in stock in 1976-77 that they ended up using to get the last MP40's out. Some ended up with the big recoil spring and others ended up with the telescoping recoilspring housing. No rhyme or reason to which types ended up being shipped from MGC at that time.

Years ago, (1986) I observed a new in box, MGC MP40 at a Seattle gunshow, it was a late model with the large recoilspring and other late features. I think that it was one of the very last MGC MP40's imported into the U.S. as the collectors armory had dropped them from their catalog in 1985 or so. Yes, I really wanted it But, I couldn't afford it at that time...
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Post by Doc

Hey Mark

Did you ever see an MGC MP40 barrel with the crown logo on it

I just have, strangely enough not a small "serial" number either ........

DOC
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Post by Mark

A crown marked MGC MP40 barrel??

That is strange...I have seen nakata MP40 receivers that have the crown marking but never the barrel on any MP40 modelgun. Does it look like a correct MGC barrel or? Perhaps someone swapped barrels at one time due to breakage issues? I guess that I don't as of yet know too much about the earlier MGC MP40 production.

Maybe the earlier MP40's received the crown markings as did many other all metal modelguns due to Japanese law(s) of that time. Much of the early production facts are not easily discovered today as they where not documented by anyone I think. I would certainally like to see pictures of the strange barrel if possible.
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:46 pm

Post by Doc

Yep its defo an MGC one ,
Photos on their way to you as we speak.

The serial No is 03585 so not the smallest production number I have seen ........odd isnt it ?

DOC
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:47 pm

Post by Mark

Yes, the pictures definately are of an MGC barrel with the odd crown stamp on the RHS of the barrel's front sight housing. Hmmm, that serial number isn't very low is it! I have seen some that are lower than that....

Any other details available on this example DOC?
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:48 pm

Post by Doc

Oh go on then here are all the details

1 Open barrel serial number (on left) 03585 + Crown logo on RHS
2 Mag housing : No Seam Blued
3 Bolt : Type one Blued
4 Ejector : Early Centre type
5 Recoil : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Chrome
7 Receiver : Uncut
8 Grip : " Made in Japan"
9 Muzzle Nut : once blued but now very rusty.
10 Trunnion screws : Small hex head type


DOC
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:48 pm

Post by Mark



Thanks for adding the details on this strange MP40 Doc!

I hope that we will get even more information on these modelguns over time especially the earlier versions.

(Oh, by the way, could you please send the pictures that you emailed earlier today again? As I accidently deleted them! )
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:49 pm

Post by jayrbenz

Hey Mark, here's mine:

1 Serial number on right side of barrel 10077
2 Mag housing : No Seam Blued
3 Bolt : Type two. late
4 Ejector : Mid/Late Type
5 Recoil : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Chrome
7 Receiver : Uncut
8 Grip : " Made in Japan"
9 Muzzle Nut : Early blued
10 Trunnion screws : Small hex head type
11. Forearm: Early Dark Brown
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Post by kickback

Hi Mark,here are a couple you can add to your info. that i have purchased over the last couple of months :-

1. open barrel,serial no.010910 on r.h.s. of resting bar.
2. overlapped welded mag housing blued.
3. late type bolt
4. centre ejector
5. steel recoil tube
6. black trunnion
7. receiver "uncut"
8. grip "japan"
9. blue steel muzzle nut
10. small trunnion screws

and the other is

1.blocked barrel with no serial no.
2. overlapped blued mag housing
3. late type bolt
4. centre ejector
5. large recoil spring
6. chromed trunnion
7. cut receiver in front of mag housing
8. no japan markings on grip
9. muzzle nut black zinc
10 large trunnion screws.


I think i have done this correctly please excuse any errors.



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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:51 pm

Post by Mark

Cool! Thanks for the information on your MP40's!

The more information that I receive on the MGC MP40's the better and the details that you supply help to determine the production history of the MGC MP40.

It appears so far that MGC produced the MP40 to a certain time in 1970? or so that they either cheapened up the production in an effort to cut costs or? As the serial numbering process stopped and the two-piece recoil spring assy was replaced with the large recoil spring. Where there these changes due to the change in Japanese law(s) or simply, the end of the MP40's production run? I.E. they where using up the last of the parts in stock?

The solid barrels where obviously made after the changes in Japanese law in 1972? If the MGC MP40 was manufactured all the way until 1977 then it might be reasonable to assume that the barrels where made solid in 1972 when they first changed the law(s)

The two piece magazine housings where possibly a cost cutting step or they just wore out the original die set for the one piece magazine housings.
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:52 pm

Post by figaro

Like new condition MGC MP40.
Obviously very late model.
1. No serial number that I can find.
2. Late two piece magazine.
3. Mid to late, still has bolt face.
4. offset ejector.
5. spring recoil, no tube.
6. blued trunion.
7. Seems to be a slot cut behind the mag housing.
8. No Japan marking on trigger guard.
9. Black muzzle nut, completely blocked barrel, not moveable, seems to have some resin blocking muzzle.
10. Black plastic forearm, plastic resting bar?

Overall very light weight, spring slides forward very gently. No firing pin in chamber. mag has mgc markings fake waffen mark.
Very, very clean, but does not feel like real gun for some reason.
*Excuse my movie fliers in the pics, these were taken for Ebay, did not sell will not be relisting it, but I am interested in trading for MP44.
(This one is too nice to screw up using on a film.)
The mark on the plastic is a thumbprint, it looks nasty in the pic, but it rubbed off. Sorry.



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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:53 pm

Post by scultzsgt

Hey Mark, here's mine:
I bought this mp40 way back in 1974 and over the years it has seen some abuse(my children played with it). So I decided it was time to put her back the way she was when I bought it. Here are the details on my MP40:
1 Serial number on right side of barrel N03651
2 Mag housing : No Seam Blued
3 Bolt : Type one. early
4 Ejector : Early/Mid Type
5 Recoil : Tube type
6 Trunnion : Mid Blued
7 Receiver : Uncut
8 Grip : no "Japan" or" Made in Japan" stamping
9 Muzzle Nut : Early: Machined, non-threaded pressed on, usually with a blued steel finish (missing lost over the years)
10 Trunnion screws : Small hex head type
11. Forearm: Early Dark Brown
Here are pics of my MP40
before restoring:



after re-blueing:



after replaceing the forestock and pistol grips and making a dummy magazine:


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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:58 pm

Post by Mark

Hi and welcome to the forums schultzsgt!

Also, thanks for sharing your pictures and adding your information on your MGC MP40 into the registry! It's especially nice to have an original MGC MP owner add to the information base. I have one of my MGC MP's that I have been adding more authentic details onto to make it look "right" compared to the real MP40's.

On the subject of the MGC MP40's, I think that it is time to show you guys what I think is a great find and a really rare MGC MP40 that I picked up a few months back.



Yep! That's right, Serial number 1000!

This MGC MP40 is almost black in color..

"Made in Japan"

This particular MP isn't perfect and has plenty of scratches on it but hey..

The forearm is in great shape.

Again, the finish is far blacker than any other MGC MP that I have yet seen.

Note the brown color of the forearm.

Theres a little surface rust too..

Interesting bolt face. I have not seen this type before..

Now, here's the specifications on serial number 1000

1. Serial number: on Right Hand Side NO. 1000
2. Magazine housing: No seam, Black
3. Bolt: I have not seen this type of bolt before. Pre type one? (it fully supports the cartridge case without the small weak "tabs" on the feed ribs that bend/break off easily)
4. Ejector: early "blade" type
5. Recoil assy: Tube type
6. Trunnion: Early Chrome
7. Receiver: Early Uncut
8. Grip frame: "Made in Japan" stamped
9. Muzzle nut: Early Machined, pressed on blued.
10. Trunnion screws: Small
11. Forearm: Early Dark Brown
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MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:59 pm

Post by Doc

Hi Mark

Yes I have one of those bolts in an MP40 and the central mounted ejector too, nice as they are more like the original although I haven`t plucked the courage to fire this one yet .

DOC
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:00 pm

Post by schultzsgt

I'm curious as to why my mgc68 MP40 doesn't have the words "Japan" or "Maded In Japan" stamped onto the trigger guard. Anyone have any ideas? Another question what is it worth now?
Here's a blast from the past this is the ad I took into the hobby shop when I had them order my mp40. If you look close they have the pic of the mp40 mirrored for placement on the ad

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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:00 pm

Post by Phil_D

Wow - look at those 1974 prices, That was year I allowed to shoot my grandads SMLE

If you check on the forum the last MGC 68 sold went for 425? ($850) but i know of one that is for sale at 795
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PostSubject: Re: MGC68 MP40 ... Registry   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:01 pm

Post by schultzsgt

Well when I ordered my mp40 it cost me $84.00cdn and that included the sales tax and the shipping to the hobby shop. Another one of those "If we only knew then!!"
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