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 Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol

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smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Empty
PostSubject: Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol   Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Icon_minitimeThu Mar 11, 2010 8:52 pm

Guys,

I have an airsoft Kampfpistol made by CAW. It is a replica of Walther LP-38 (also: LeuP, Leuchtpistole, Gezogene Leuchtpistole, Heeres Model 1928 or Kampfpistole Z) flare gun:
http://www.olarmyjoel.com/Virtual%20Arms%20Room/German%20Flare%20Pistols.htm
http://leuchtpistole.free.fr/
http://ww2weaponsforum.com/showthread.php?310-WW2-German-Flare-Pistols&highlight=flare

CAW airsoft version it can be loaded with 27mm mini-Moscart cartridge, charged with gas and 6mm bbs.
http://www.caw.co.jp/caw/kampfpistole/index.html

CAW model has black plastic grip panels. I recently got original LeuP panels made of bakelite and another (later) version of prestoff (lower quality, cheaper material).

Of course they do not fit :-/

What would be your opinion how to make modifications?

As you can see on photos below, there are three problems:

1) placement and shape of positioning protrusions is totally different. LeuP panels have two C-shaped brackets, one near bottom, one near top. CAW panels have a ridge that runs all around inside, and in different shape. Frame has cutout corresponding to plastic panels and is solid all around it.

2) placement of the hole for screw that holds both panels together is different. It is higher in LeuP ones.

3) LeuP panels are slightly wider than CAW grips. They will stick out of frame about 1-2mm off sides and bottom.


Number 2 can be resolved in the easiest (and probably the only) way, by drilling another hole in the frame. Hole will be hidden by grip panels anyway. New hole should be far enough from the previous one to avoid problems. Fortunately CAW screw works ok with LeuP panels, they just need one hole slightly enlarged for the screw head.

Number 3 might be resolved by cutting original panels, though this will destroy surface finish.

I am still puzzled how to solve number 1.
Making cutouts in CAW frame is a no-go, it would remove too much material. It also interferes with a pin that can be seen.
Removing cutouts in LeuP panels could be considered, provided that something else is glued in proper place to keep panels from rotating.
The last option is to create an "adapter" made of wood. It would have protrusions that correctly go into frame on one side, and cutouts on the other side to fit LeuP grips. The sides could be also shaped to better adapt wider LeuP panels to the frame (solving number 3).

Price is an important piece in decision making - the cheapest element is original panels from WWII (once again proving that it's cheaper to buy real guns than modelguns).

Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Leup-210
Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Leup-110
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kiwigunner
Modelgun Master
Modelgun Master
kiwigunner


Number of posts : 556
Age : 73
Location / Country : Auckland/New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-03-10

Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol   Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Icon_minitimeSat Oct 02, 2010 11:39 pm

Hi Smootik, re the Kampfpistol -

I just came across your post about these grips, earlier in March this year.'Smile'
As it’s now October, you’ve probably solved the problems already, but I thought I suggest my ideas, and see if you think they would work, and how they might compare with your solutions!??

I agree # 2 is easily solved by drilling another hole; I’d plug the originals with some Epoxy filler afterwards, unless the original CAW grips are going to go back on some day!

Re: #1 You wrote:
Placement and shape of positioning protrusions is totally different. LeuP panels have two C-shaped brackets, one near bottom, one near top. CAW panels have a ridge that runs all around inside, and in different shape. Frame has cutout corresponding to plastic panels and is solid all around it.

Based on the photos, this is what I think might work??'Question'

1. Drill the new hole;

2. Remove any raised portions on the new grips that need to go, and leave any than can be left. For example, it looks like part of the bottom “C” brackets could fit?

3. Use an Epoxy (2-part mix) to make a long thin “sausage” and form it around the inside of the pistol handle well – after well greasing ALL the ABS surfaces. Making sure the “sausage sits about 3 mm – 4 mm ABOVE the inside edge of the well. I would use a mix that sets hard in about 8 minutes. The grease may make it hard to stay in position. If so use a piece of thin cardboard cut 3-4 mm smaller than then the inside of the well. It can be supported on a knob of plasticine if need be. This can all be removed later.
(A local NZ product I use is called "Knead-It")

4. Clean the replacement grip insides to remove any oil or dirt, then gently in position on top of the “sausage”.

5. Then carefully push down, squashing the Epoxy “sausage”. With careful pushing, the Epoxy will “bond” to the Bakelite and NOT to the ABS. You may find you need to make a thicker "sausage". Trial and error maybe inevitable!

6. Leave it to set for a minute, then CAREFULLY lift the grip up and onto its back.

7. Test for bonding and hardness. It should be firm but not set yet – use a scalpel blade to remove any unwanted “squashed” Epoxy from the edges of where the grip sits on the ABS and allow to dry.

8. Clean the ABS, and repeat the whole process for the other side.

9. When satisfied, place the grips on the pistol and screw them together.

Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Grip01

Solving the last problem:
3) LeuP panels are slightly wider than CAW grips. They will stick out of frame about 1-2mm off sides and bottom.

I’d just cut the excess and sand with progressively finer sand paper, or 3M pads, finally buffing using a metal polisher such as Brasso!

Bakelite is made from phenolyic resin and formaldehyde plus fillers. The fillers were usually wood dust, but asbestos was sometimes used. 'affraid'
Even is it does contain asbestos, I don't think the small amount of exposure would be harmful – but wear a dust mask anyway!

Anyway, the pistol looks like a cool & unusual addition to your collection - I might even try to get one myself!
Cheers.'cheers'
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smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol   Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Icon_minitimeSun Oct 03, 2010 6:44 am

Hey, it's never too late for ideas :-)

I tried to go with wooden adapter approach, but it didn't fit well, extra thickness meant original screw wasn't quite ok, and I was not happy with result. It was put on shelf as I didn't figure out how to replace new ridge after removing existing one. Your idea of using epoxy should work good :-) Especially as you wrote everything in details, saving me a lot of trial and error :-) My skills working with physical material are not that great.

I will get some modelling epoxy and try this later on - thank you!
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kiwigunner
Modelgun Master
Modelgun Master
kiwigunner


Number of posts : 556
Age : 73
Location / Country : Auckland/New Zealand
Registration date : 2010-03-10

Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Empty
PostSubject: Re: Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol   Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Icon_minitimeSun Oct 03, 2010 8:14 pm

You're welcome to share ideas anytime Smootik!'Very Happy'
You do fantastic reviews and posts on this web site; and I'd say improving your workshop skills are only a matter of good practice! The more you do, the better you get!
I was a klutz with my first Marushin MP40 - but thanks to posts from you and other members I'm getting better! There's so much GOOD INFORMATION here! I'm slowly working my way through it!
And it's given me confidence to get over being a Klutz!'bounce'
Cheers.
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol   Fitting bakelite grips to Kampfpistol Icon_minitime

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