1847 Civil War revolver?

I've put this here, because it is not a replica model gun as such, because it doesn't use cartridges.
And it isn't a real gun either, but what is it all about?

I bought this gun about 6 years ago, from a guy who knew another guy who brought it in from England. Yeah right!!
Anyway, it is not like the cheap Denix stuff, or even any of the Japanese guns which are made of alloy.
This gun is made from what appears to be machined steel and brass. No castings here!

It's 16 inches in length, the barrel is blocked 4 inches down, and it is damn heavy being magnetic steel.
The only markings are US 1847.....nothing else.
Grips are varnished wood, but might have been replaced at one point.

All I can say is that it looks so real, and I thought it actually was when I first saw it.

Yeah I know it's not a model gun because it's a percussion revolver, but does anyone have any ideas?

Whatever it's origins Dan, that revolver looks like a fine piece of craftsmanship to me.

Someone's gone to a great deal of trouble to make a very realistic piece.

Does it have a working action? Do the trigger, hammer and cylinder move?
What would happen if you placed a percussion cap on the nipple and let the hammer strike it?
I've seen that done on real fireams, i.e. the percussion cap's struck and ignited without anything in the chamber to demonstrate how they work but would your example hold up to that?

I'd happily call it a Model Gun mate, it may not fire cap loaded cartridges but it's still a model of a gun isn't it?

Yep, the action works like a real one, although it could do with a little bit of work.
Pull the hammer back, cylinder rotates, locks in place, ready to fire.
It is all steel, apart from the brass frame you can see in the pictures, so I reckon it would stand up to any abuse it was given.

Could it be possible it was once a real gun, and has been plugged up the barrel?

If I get a chance, I think I might pull it apart and see what the mechanism is like, and maybe I can get a clue on it's origins.

Looks like it's a "Colt Model 1847 Walker 44 cal" possibly a black powder type

8ace

I know this is a rather old post, but I couldn't help sharing a pic of the gun I found in a box of prop handguns. Looks very close to yours. Just beat to hell, and painted over LOL I even have the piece of the missing frame! Don't think it can be welded though:(

Edited to say yours is better quality after looking more closely:)

Yours looks like a Denix, because of the diamond shaped stamp on the side, but I could be wrong.

I also have one of these, the only Denix I own.
I will take a look when I get home from work.

Hi Oz,

Yours is a replica of an 1847 Colt Walker, there are a number of companies that make live firing replicas, Pietta, Uberti are two - and there are literally thousands of firing replica 1847 Colt Walkers in the US, you can buy them without a license so they are very popular to collectors and reenactors, etc. Average $300 for a nice European one, the Colt factory also make them (or sell them) and those ones are about $800 to a grand - they have the Colt patent engraved, the Italian replicas leave the space blank, usually.

The Walker is interesting from a historical perspective, but a pain to shoot, the loading rod falls down each time you fire, Colt fixed this with the Dragoon model and all of his subsequent revolvers, but it plagues the replicas.

If you ever run across a real Walker Colt it is like the Holy grail of Blackpowder guns, in the mid to high five figures, do a search on any gun auction site if you're curious. They were made in very limited numbers, and many didn't survive - some would say due to catastrophic failures, Walker himself was an interesting character, killed by a Mexican lancer, I'm not sure he ever saw his revolver - there are supposedly a lot of extremely good fakes out there, too, something that was started wholesale in the 1950's according to Elmer Keith, the gun writer.

The one in the picture is certainly not an original one, but could well be one of the older "unmarked" Italian replicas with it's barrel blocked, I think they did this to a lot of the live ones to make them replicas in the UK, you could still fire a percussion cap, but this was two decades ago, and I may be wrong - if it was made as a replica from the factory, it would explain the lack of proof marks or import info.

Yours also looks like it was unfinished, in the white, which could mean it was hand assembled, although there are angles that look too authentic for a one off home machined example, IMO. Take a look inside the grips see if you can't find another makers marking.

Finally, a lot of 1970's BP revolvers were sold as kits to assemble at home, I have seen C. Navy's, C. Army's and Remingtons, I haven't run across a Walker, they could of course exsist, but these often had less finish, less engraving, marking and the grips were often left unfinished for one reason or another, it could well be one of those kits.

The gun in the other post looks like a spanish Denix replica. It looks vaguely like a Colt Navy model in .36, but it's not a very faithful reproduction.

It was built for the US Cavalry/Dragoons fighting in the Mexican/American war 1847 - not the Civil War 1861-65.

Thanks Jesse, some good information there.
I'm convinced mine is a 1847 Colt Walker.

As for the other one, it's definitely a Denix as I mentioned in my previous post.
Coincidentally, I bought one some years back, and here it is.
The markings in the diamond are BKA/98.

Ha, ha, The box marked is wrong, it's not an army, but it doesn't matter really.
I used to trim the end off plastic .22 short blanks they will detonate in this, you do things like that when you're twelve, which was when I had mine, too!

The brass on your Walker is not the same as on an original, the Armi san Marco's had similar incorrect brass, I think yours is one of those, Oz.

Highly probable.
If Denix can't get the models right, why would they get the boxes right?

So the Denix gun is a 36 Colt Navy......what year?

And yeah, thanks for the great info on the Walker.
Now I might know of it's origins.

Doing a bit of a search, it appears that it might be an 1851.
I have noticed some differences with my Google search, where some have the octagonal barrel.
Also, the Denix model has the indents on the side of the cylinder, where the real ones don't.

Oz & Pit Thanks for the great info So that's what it used to look like LOL.

All,

First of all, thanks for your interesting discussion which I did enjoy.
I was not interested in BP guns when I was young, but as I reached above 40's, I start to have more interest on those guns.

Oz,

I assume your denix is Colt Dragoon 3rd model. Am sure it is not 1851 since I used to own Colt 1851 navy from CAW, which looks different from your denix.

Regards,

I own a Colt dragoon 3rd model (new generation) made by Colt; the Denix is a copy of an 1851 Navy, badly copied. The flutes in the cylinder are just random.

The Colt Dragoon is "considerably" larger than the Navy, it was produced after the Walker and some of the early Dragoons were made with converted Walker parts. It has many different visual characteristics to the Navy or Army models of later years.
Great Books that put this discussion to sleep very quickly: The peacemakers, Colt an American legend, Steel canvas, Flaydermans guide.

It's difficult for you without having the firearm physically, because visually there may appear to be similarities, but visit any of the very numerous websites that have pictures of the guns side by side you will see what I mean about the size difference.

The Dragoon is a beast, it is marginally smaller than the Walker; the Colt Navy series however, is an elegant, far more ergonomic size - the Dragoon was supposedly still designed with mounted cavalry in mind, hence the name.

Interestingly enough, there are Belgian, Spanish and even English Colt copies floating around from the late 19th century, and these often have the uneven looping trigger guard, poor cylinder design and odd caliber sizing and the slightly "off" dimensions that the Denix replicas have, it may well be a really good copy of a "rip off" colt?
Go on Gunbroker.com - under "powder" then colt as a search word, and look for colt copies, you will see what I mean.

Pitfighter,

ah...ok, thanks for your input.
Shaz,

Great knowledge there!

I did a search on the dragoon when I saw Shazib's post last night, but it didn't quite look right.
The main difference to me was the dragoon's shorter barrel, compared to the Denix.
But knowing how their models are, I thought the Denix might have been wrong.

shaz,

Oh, just to complicate things the barrel on the original period .36 caliber Colt Navy, 51's are usually hexagonal - not round, who knows why Denix made the barrel the way they did - I think we have probably tried to analyze this replica enough, though, lol.
The Dragoon, Walker and smoothed edged Army's are all usually encountered in .44. which is actually .454 when you buy lead for it - I guess it's like the .38 which is actually .35 if you measure it, to be precise .357"

Looking around the web found a denix for sale same as this one with the folowing description:

"This replica brass-framed Civil War pistol is a version of the Griswald & Gunnison Type that were made by contract to the Confederacy in Georgia, and only 500 or so were ever made between 1862 & 1864, and only about a dozen now survive or exist in various museums and private collections today. It was very similar to a Model 1851 Colt Navy pistol, but the Colt had an octagonal barrel, and the Griswold had the round barrel as shown."

New info to me, anyone know if this could be true?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ARMY-MODEL-1851-REPLICA-REVOLVER-PISTOL-Gun_W0QQitemZ350252472255QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item518cac97bf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Page 526 of Flaydermans - there are two pictured.
Word for word the description, this is almost certainly where the guy got it from.
(Actually impressed someone still reads books, the internet has so much circumspect and inaccurate info. on it)
Hammer and cylinder are different, but same barrel design.
The Denix is a more faithful copy of this than the standard Colt navy 1851, for sure.
(or any of the four or five other Confederate copies of the 1851 Navy, there are other with round barrels.)