Haw San Beretta M9 Full Auto problems

Post by chameloon

Hi Guys,

I have the Haw San M9 beretta (that I sell, BTW. Let me know if interessed in). Awesome look and feel because of its full metal construction.
This is my first model gun and I encountered strange problems with it. I fired only a small dozen caps before giving up. I will try to explain, but forgive my mistakes, I'm not a native english speaker.

When I cock the gun (pushing the "button" to let the slide go forward), most of the time it ignites the first cartridges, because of the force (spring is strong) of the slide coming forward. If I cock it slowly, by hand, everything goes fine.
What I experienced too is gun firing full auto : The cap ignites when the slide comes forward...then it ejects fired shell, cycle a new one that ignites when the slide goes forward and so
on...The only fact to let the slide go forward (under spring
pressure) ignites the cap 9 times out of 10.
What is wrong ? Is the "firing" pin too close ?
Thanks for help,

Laurent

Post by Mark

Hi Laurent,

Welcome to the forums! Your English looks great to me and you explained the problem well. It sounds as if the either the firing pin in the slide is too long and the detonator is set improperly (too far rearward) or there is something wrong with the barrels overall length.

The weight and the feel of an all metal modelgun is great and the plastic modelguns are so "toy like" in comparison.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by chameloon

Mark,

Thanks a lot for your reply. Is that problem common with model guns ?
Do you have a clue on how could I solve it ? What do you mean with "detonator" ? The inner cartidge mecanism ?
Regards,

Laurent

Post by Madmike
Hello!

The detonator is also known as the firing pin and it is the pin that is located in the barrel, facing backwards. It goes through the open top of the cartridge (where on real carts the bullet is located) and ignites the cap when the cart is pressed on the pin by the hammer.

But I guess Mark will give you an even better answer soon.

Greetings

MadMike

Post by Mark

Laurent,

The detonator is located in the barrel and they are usually held in place with a screw. The detonator can be moved back and forth if the design is not perfect so, the detonator might be set to far forward in your barrel. No, this really isn't a normal modelgun problem..
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by chameloon

Mark,

I had a quick look at the detonator. It sounds like being held in place with a pin, or something like this. I'm not sure it is screwed. I'll have a closer inspection later and I hope I could fix that problem.
Thanks again for help,

Laurent

Post by Mark

Laurent,

I really have no experiance with the HawShan modelguns at this point as i don't yet have one in my collection. If the detonator is held in place by a pin, the pin can be removed and the nose of the pin can be slightly shortened in an attempt to increase the clearance. The pin has to be removed and relaced carefully as not to damage the barrel. The clearances between the cartridges and the detonator is really small 1-1.5 mm so, not much has to be removed from the detonator to make a difference.

Good luck!
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Claymore

I have had the same problem with the marushin and MGC automags, it does not happen all the time but sometimes it will fire the round when you first pull the bolt back and full auto has happened on a few occasions.
Everything seems fine on mine, detonator etc, i put it down to long cartridges and powerfull springs on the gun.
The rounds on the hawsan are not that long though so i would thing it rules that out, how powerfull are the springs maybe it goes forward with 2 much force.

Post by Mark

Actually, there might be a slight problem with the caps sensitivity or how you load the cartridges. Another idea, the slide being heavier than a HW or ABS plastic slide requires a heavier spring tension to return the slide to it's closed point. If the extractor doesn't hold the cartridge tight enough, the cartridge can "slip" forward due to the mass of the heavy slide and the strong spring tension. If the cartridges slip from the extractors grip, they might be propelled forward enough to fire. I would check the extractor spring tension and the extractors "claw" to see if it's sharp and wether it holds the cartridge on the breech face tightly.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by John

Stronger spring is needed to move the metal slide (heavier than plastic) to its place. The metal striking sounds much louder & that is the loudest sound I could make out of my modelgun ! That's why I like it so much regardless its poor markings & finish.

Same theory applies to airsoft. When plastic slide is replaced by metal slide, the recoil spring is usually needed to be replaced by a stonger one in order to keep operation normal & faster.

Haw San M9 is a hybrid of Marushin Dolphin and normal M9. It has open top slide but with Dolphin full auto feature. I'm doubtful if there is such a real gun existing. I know the Dolphin (which is also a mystry gun by itself) is not open top (at least for Marushin's).

Post by Spencerman

The full auto selector does function on the Han San model M9. For those of you not too familiar with this gun, it does in fact exist, and is available in the U.S. I belive in 3 shot burst fire mode. The fire select switch is located on the right hand side of the frame, where the ambidextrous safety catch is on the standard 92F. To stop this switch from switching between different firing modes when shooting, there is a buit in safety feature to the switch. This is simply that the switch has two lugs on the underside, which lock into the frame. To change between fire modes, you simply have to pull the switch out to the right. This disengages the lugs into the frame. You then move it up or down to select whichever firing mode you want (full auto ). I have found that sometimes too short a screw is used (and can also shear off) which prevents you from being able to pull the switch out far enough to disengage the lugs. If you loosen the screw to change it, be sure and tighten it back up before firing. This is easily solved by buying a slightly longer screw, or by grinding a little off of the lugs so that you dont have to pull it out so far.

If that doesnt solve your question, are you using lubricant on the cartridges? I have found that in my early unfamiliar years with model guns, that by cleaning up the cartridges and oiling them up to keep them working, if you get oil on the inside of the cartridge then this can cause it to self detonate upon loading.

Post by chameloon

Spencerman, thanks for the reply.
I finally managed to make the full/semi auto selector work (I first thought it was inoperative) with the help of your indications. Anyway, I gave up trying to fire the gun, in order to keep it in a as good condition as possible to sell it (and buy a 92F Marushin instead). In case you could be interessed in my M9 Wa-shan, feel free making me an offer via PM.
Regards,
Laurent