MP40's Modelguns Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
MP40's Modelguns Forum

International Forum for Modelgun enthusiasts
 
HomeLatest imagesRegisterLog in

 

 MGC P08, ABS version

Go down 
+3
kickback
Cerwyn
smootik
7 posters
AuthorMessage
smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeThu Apr 08, 2010 10:24 pm

This review is dedicated to memory of people who died in a crash of Polish President airplane in Smolensk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash

History
Parabellum 1908, or Luger (from the name of its inventor, Georg Luger), is a pistol than many people recognize. It entered production in 1900 and served numerouse German soldiers in WWI and WWII. Originally chambered in 7.65, since 1902 it was manufactured in 9x19mm, cartridge most widely used in the world. Feature that makes it so distinct is a toggle lock.

Wikipedia information about Luger P08:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_P08_pistol

More information:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg67-e.htm

List of metal P08 modelguns (in Japanese):
http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~yon-yon/cgi/test3.cgi?Input2=Luger

Two other pages about P08 in Japanese:
http://homepage3.nifty.com/nkoinuma/Luger.htm
http://web3.incl.ne.jp/shiraaya/mgc-luger-p08.htm

Modelgun
Luger P08 is fairly popular due to it's prominence in WWII movies. Several modelgun manufacturers have released P08 modelguns. MGC released a metal paper-firer first, then ABS cap-firing model, Nakata a metal Tanio Action (trigger mechanically moves slide) version, CMC a metal one (unknown mechanism) and later Marushin another metal version - dummy.

I like P08 for many reasons: unique toggle mechanism, ergonomic pistol grip, shape of the bottom of the magazine, ubiquity in war movies. After some time I decided to get an MGC model, ABS version. Mechanism is different from the real one, but it can fire cartridges. It has been produced in at least two versions, one with open-type cartridges (BLK), and a later one with CP carts.


Box
Box that I have is mostly black, with a silhouette of a soldier firing a P08 on top. Sides have various text: "BLK Parabellum PISTOL-08", "Patented blowback plastics modelgun", "08/BLK" and "Model guns & accessoris MGC BONDSHOP".
Inside there is a thin plastic cutout (nowadays it's styrofoam or paper) with a modelgun (including inserted magazine), box of cartridges, take down tool, detonator pin unscrewing tool, and probably a box of caps - there is space, but no content in my box.

MGC P08, ABS version 10-box11
MGC P08, ABS version 11-in_11

Almost forgot - there is also a four-page instruction leaflet, with usage instructions, takedown sequence, exploded diagram and a list of accessories:" 'Dress up' your Luger" with one of three holsters, a silencer, two types of wooden stocks, wooden grips and a tool to help load magazine with cartridges (?)

MGC P08, ABS version Mgc-lu10
MGC P08, ABS version Mgc-lu13
MGC P08, ABS version Mgc-lu11
MGC P08, ABS version Mgc-lu12


MGC P08 is not produced since 1980s :-(


Modelgun
Modelgun is fairly light. It weighs only about half a kilogram. Loading a full magazine helps to make it a bit heavier.

MGC P08, ABS version 20-lef10MGC P08, ABS version 21-rig10
MGC P08, ABS version 23-top10

Outside is made of black, shiny ABS. There are several marks, mine has them filled in white paint.
Left side of the barrel is marked with a symbol and a "G" letter. Further to the back there is "76823 Tk" serial number. The last two digits of the number are repeated in other places (six in total, I think). Right side has several marks with crowns over letters "B", "Z" and "N". These are explained in instruction, in Japanese of course. There is also an MGC crown on top of the toggle, but it's not painted.

MGC P08, ABS version 30-bot10
MGC P08, ABS version 22-bac10

Takedown lever is a dummy, you can't rotate it. Takedown is different from a real gun. Trigger is a trigger, inside it's guard ;-) with a magazine release button just behind it on the left side (the usual place). Near the back of the slide, also on the left, there is a safety lever - push forward to fire, push backward to see "Gesichert" (secured) word and stop model from firing. When safety is engaged you can still push the trigger, but it will not release the hammer.
The right side is just plain.

MGC P08, ABS version 26-sid10

Grips are brown and plastic. Wooden ones were available as an option.

Top of the model is occupied by the famous toggle lock. Front part of it is made of metal.

There are classic sights in expected places.

At the back you can also find an attachment for a leash.


Magazine
Magazine is quite thin. It's made of steel, and has a tendency to rust.

A feature that I like a lot is the bottom of the magazine, not flat like most of the magazines, but with a cool looking... feature :-)

Capacity: 7 cartridges. Another one could go in the chamber.

MGC P08, ABS version 32-mag10
MGC P08, ABS version 33-mag10
MGC P08, ABS version 34-mag10
MGC P08, ABS version 35-mag10
MGC P08, ABS version 36-mag10


Cartridges
MGC ABS P08 was initially released with BLK (open) type cartridges, and appropriate firing pin. There are 12 cartridges per "Small Cal,/BLK" marked box. Cartridge design is simple - they are open type, with a small plunger at the bottom and a hole through, so you can push out used caps.

Later MGC released version with CP-BLK cartridges. To us them you just need to change the firing pin. CP cartriges look like a miniature copy of their .45 cartridges, with a typical MGC design: bottom part with a plunger, top part that screws together with the bottom part, and a plug with a pin that goes inside bottom part, on top of the cartridge.

Cartridges are fairly small, so they use 5mm caps.

These pictures show open type cartridges (BLK) on the left, and CP cartridges on the right. All internal parts are shown next to cartridges, so you can see how they go inside. The last one shows a loaded cart.

MGC P08, ABS version 82-box10
MGC P08, ABS version 83-car10
MGC P08, ABS version 84-car10
MGC P08, ABS version 85-car10
MGC P08, ABS version 86-loa10

Firing
Load cap into cartridges, load cartridges into mag. You need to hold mag follower down, using a small element that protrudes from the side of a mag. Insert magazine into the grip.

Rack the ... uhm, toggle :-)
This takes some using to, but you should find a comfortable hold. Some people prefer to grab it with thumb and index finger, some with index and middle fingers. I find it easiest to keep pistol in my right hand and thumb-index toggle with the left one.

Toggle moves in two steps that you can feel. First it clears the top of the magazine (smooth/easy move), then move gets more difficult as hammer is cocked.

Toggle mechanism makes it more natural to just release the toggle and let it load the cartridge. This is different to pistols, where many people push the slide back instead of letting it go back by itself.

P08 is single action only. Hammer is internal and can only be set by the toggle. There is no provision for releasing hammer without firing.

Shooting is great :-)
Just as many MGC models, blowback is crisp, at least in CP version that I checked. It's not as loud as a 1911, of course.
Used cartridges fly out to the top, so take care!

Toggle should lock up after the last cartridge, but it falls back down after you remove the magazine. Not sure if this is by design, but there does not seem to be anything to hold the toggle locked, except for the mag. To remove the mag you might need to pull the toggle a bit back, otherwise mag is held in place by the toggle.

After shooting remember to clean replica and cartridges.

I noticed that P08 vents much more smoke/sparks from the barrel than other models. This was even more visible when using Marushin caps in a dark room. Quick check revealed that my P08 does not have a metal tab in the barrel! Apart from the firing pin and metal bracket holding it in place there is no other blockage. This is the first time I've seen such a model, it's probably a design dating before some law took effect.

MGC P08, ABS version 27-bar10


Problems
No modelgun is without problems, but P08 is a pretty solid construction, like many MGC models.

It's made of ABS, so the model is quite sturdy and should not crack when firing. Shiny surface will get scratches if you are not careful though. Area near chamber is prone to dings when cartridges get stuck instead of ejected, as is typical for modelguns.

Cartridges need to be well maintained. If the o-ring is damaged, there will not be enough blowback to correctly cycle the model.

In my P08 the hammer was moving with a bit of friction, and suspected that it might influence the performance. After complete disassembly I found that the main spring interferes with grip insides. That did not look right. Upon closer inspection I discovered that the spring is not symmetrical. It was on purpose - if correctly installed this actually helps spring to compress easily. Mine has shifted, and that has caused excessive friction.


Basic disassembly
Disassembly process is a bit complicated.

  • remove magazine
  • make sure chamber is empty
  • unscrew both grips, note that small metal tabs will fall out - these are what screws get into, not frame
  • unscrew the takedown lever - there is a screw on the right side
  • remove takedown lever to the left
  • under the right grip, remove c-clip from safety lever (use screwdriver)
  • remove safety lever from the left side. Careful! there is a small, spring-loaded bearing ball, right under the top of safety.

Now you should be able to separate top part from the bottom part.

Screwdriver on photos serves as a pointer to screws and other elements. It's not used for actual unscrewing - included tool works pretty good as it has wider blade.

MGC P08, ABS version 900-le10
MGC P08, ABS version 901-le10
MGC P08, ABS version 902-un10
MGC P08, ABS version 903-un10
MGC P08, ABS version 904-ri10
MGC P08, ABS version 905-ma10
MGC P08, ABS version 906-c_10
MGC P08, ABS version 907-sa10
MGC P08, ABS version 908-se10

Top part can be further disassembled to get to the chamber and firing pin in order to clean it.

  • unscrew two screws that hold back of the toggle
  • remove one end of the spring from its place using screwdriver, put it inside the top part so it rests on toggle itself, not the top part
  • slightly bend top ends apart and slide the whole toggle assembly to the back. Take care - bottom bar will probably fall out, if it hasn't already
  • remove bottom plate - it is not attached to the rest of the toggle


MGC P08, ABS version 910-se10
MGC P08, ABS version 911-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 912-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 913-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 914-ap10
MGC P08, ABS version 915-to11
MGC P08, ABS version 915-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 920-to10

You could now completely disassemble the toggle if you want to. Just remember where each part should go when you put it back together ;-)

  • remove the pin at the back, just push it out from the spring. Spring will stay in place. This pin falls out by itself, that's why it is better to just remove and store it.
  • remove the front pin between the metal part (bolt) and the rest of the toggle
  • if needed (for cleaning), remove pin that holds extractor claw to the metal bolt


MGC P08, ABS version 921-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 922-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 923-to10
MGC P08, ABS version 924-ex10

Take a look at the bolt face and bottm - you can see where the metal starts to show fatigue.

MGC P08, ABS version 928-bo10

Now you have access to the firing pin.
If you have original BLK pin, it is square-shaped and you can use special tool to screw it out of the chamber.
To unscrew a newer CP pin you need a long and thin screwdriver - it is round and has a slot for a screwdriver.

MGC P08, ABS version 930-in10
MGC P08, ABS version 931-th10

Interesting thing that I found while disassembling is that the top part of the modelgun has a metal frame, covered by plastic parts. It looks like it might be possible to separate plastic (outer barrel) from metal (chamber and bars along the sides), but screws are hidden under plastic and there does not seem to be a way to do that without damaging the model. That metal frame gives in to rust, as it cannot be easily cleaned.

MGC P08, ABS version 940-me10
MGC P08, ABS version 941-me10
MGC P08, ABS version 942-me10


Further disassembly
Bottom part disassembly (only if you must):

  • inspect spring that is under left grip. Inspect again, remember how and where it goes.
  • remove that spring
  • remove trigger bar (it will probably just fall out when you remove the spring)
  • unscrew two screws under the left grip near back side
  • pull up hammer assembly, taking note how leash attachment moves out of the slot at the back

It should be easy now to find out how to separate hammer assembly in separate pieces.
Make sure the main spring does not spring out.
Note how the main spring has an assymetrical coil at the hammer end.
When putting it back, spring should be rotated so it won't bulge to a side.

MGC P08, ABS version 950-tr10
MGC P08, ABS version 951-tr10
MGC P08, ABS version 953-sc10
MGC P08, ABS version 954-sc10
MGC P08, ABS version 955-ha10
MGC P08, ABS version 956-ha10
MGC P08, ABS version 957-sp10

With hammer assembly out, take note how the mechanism works - see below for a photo of a cocked/uncocked hammer, as well as a side view showing how spring bulges out. There is also another picture trying to show that one end of a spring is assymetrical. Experiment with the position to see how it works best for you.

MGC P08, ABS version 960-co10
MGC P08, ABS version 961-un10
MGC P08, ABS version 958-as10


Assembly
It is more difficult to put it all back together due to springs and other parts just falling from their places.
Take your time, work slowly, consult instructions, ask for help on the forum :-)

A few hints:

  • when putting hammer assembly back in place make sure that leash attachment goes through its hole. If not careful, it will stay outside and you will have to unscrew everything again before fitting the top part to the bottom part.
  • note how the trigger spring should go back. It is quite tricky, and there is plenty opportunities to scratch model or launch the spring far, far and away.
  • be careful not to loose bearing ball for safety lever. For me the best procedure is to put ball in the top hole, put safety lever in its place, holding lever firmly to the slide (to not lose ball) flip model over and push c-clip back in place..
  • when reassembling grips, put tab inside the grip and hold it with finger while you try to put back the screw. Repeat on the other side.


MGC P08, ABS version 970-pu10
MGC P08, ABS version 971-pu10
MGC P08, ABS version 972-pu10
MGC P08, ABS version 973-pu10
MGC P08, ABS version 974-pu10
MGC P08, ABS version 975-pu10
MGC P08, ABS version 976-pu10

Overall

MGC ABS P08 is a lovely modelgun. It looks good, feels great and fires even better.

It is yet another superb model that I can recommend for a modelgun fan :-)



Edits: adding more and more photos, corrections


Last edited by smootik on Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:25 pm; edited 10 times in total (Reason for editing : updated with manual scans instead of photos)
Back to top Go down
Cerwyn
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11065
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeFri Apr 09, 2010 12:08 pm

Another superb review smootik, thank you again MGC P08, ABS version Icon_biggrin

I will look forwards to photographs, especially of the strip down procedure. The Toggle Lever is notoriously awkward to strip and reassemble, photos would make this a whole lot easier.

Thanks again

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
Back to top Go down
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net
smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeSat Apr 10, 2010 10:35 pm

Posted most of the pictures now.
I will re-read the review in a few days to see if I missed something interesting.
Back to top Go down
kickback
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
kickback


Number of posts : 327
Location / Country : UK.Cambridgeshire
Registration date : 2008-08-11

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2010 5:40 am

Great review Smootik,

Very informative and all procedures explained very well.....superb Very Happy .Im looking forward to your next one Wink Wink


Kickback
Back to top Go down
Cerwyn
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11065
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2010 10:38 am

Superb smootik, truly excellent MGC P08, ABS version Icon_biggrin

Detailed strip down and reassembly photographs and written instructions like this make all the difference.

I've had one of these Lugers in my collection for a long time and avoided firing it simply because the strip down procedure is by repution, difficult and awkward
Your step by step guide and photos might just change all that MGC P08, ABS version Icon_wink

Thanks very much for your efforts putting this (and others) together in such detail

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
Back to top Go down
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net
smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2010 12:32 pm

It wouldn't be so tricky if there were less springs in the way ;-)

I enjoy writing these reviews, taking pictures and posting it all here. It is in a sense paying back for all the information I found on forum when I got into this hobby, and for all the deals I made here :-)
Back to top Go down
jim
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
jim


Number of posts : 988
Location / Country : Hong Kong / Sydney, Australia
Registration date : 2008-09-07

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeMon Apr 12, 2010 9:08 am

I just love the look of white markings on black/blued pistols Very Happy !

I got one from a small shop a couple of years ago with custom wood grips - but the gun's in junk condition...should find some time to refurbish it...
Back to top Go down
pitfighter
Modelgun Master
Modelgun Master
pitfighter


Number of posts : 616
Location / Country : Hollywood, California
Registration date : 2008-09-07

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeMon Apr 12, 2010 2:48 pm

Great review, Smootik.

My sincerest condolences go out to you and your countrymen, what a terrible tragedy!

JJ
Back to top Go down
smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeMon Apr 12, 2010 8:19 pm

Ugh, just noticed that pictures are resized to 600, instead of 800 pixels.
I will redo them in higher resolution, but it will take some time to reprocess from originals, there is over 60 pictures to do.
Back to top Go down
smootik
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
smootik


Number of posts : 1823
Location / Country : Poland
Registration date : 2009-03-03

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeSun May 02, 2010 11:12 pm

Interesting page about various versions of Luger P08 modelguns:
http://homepage2.nifty.com/yamaneco/gun/pistol/others/html/p08.htm
Back to top Go down
JohnnyV
Modelgun Perfectionist
Modelgun Perfectionist
JohnnyV


Number of posts : 552
Location / Country : Cambridgeshire UK
Registration date : 2009-08-24

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeTue Aug 24, 2010 6:54 pm

Having just got one of these, I can now see just how good a review this is!!
I can now appreciate how long it must of taken to do, a superb job! I shall now go through it step by step, taking great care with all those springs:)Smile
Back to top Go down
pedal2metal
New Member
New Member
pedal2metal


Number of posts : 53
Location / Country : PA, USA
Registration date : 2015-07-01

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeFri Jul 24, 2015 5:48 pm

JohnnyV wrote:
Having just got one of these, I can now see just how good a review this is!!
I can now appreciate how long it must of taken to do, a superb job! I shall now go through it step by step, taking great care with all those springs:)Smile

Yes, awesome review & write up! Marek (Smootik) was kind enough to provide scans of the P08 instructions for my NIB (ebay find) P08 kit; if anyone would need versions of his scans w/ the yellowing removed just let me know. I just "cleaned" them up a little and took the yellowing/aging out so I could print them on standard 8.5" x 11" paper & they turned out great! -Royce
Back to top Go down
Cerwyn
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11065
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitimeSat Jul 25, 2015 1:02 pm

pedal2metal wrote:
JohnnyV wrote:
Having just got one of these, I can now see just how good a review this is!!
I can now appreciate how long it must of taken to do, a superb job! I shall now go through it step by step, taking great care with all those springs:)Smile

Yes, awesome review & write up! Marek (Smootik) was kind enough to provide scans of the P08 instructions for my NIB (ebay find) P08 kit; if anyone would need versions of his scans w/ the yellowing removed just let me know. I just "cleaned" them up a little and took the yellowing/aging out so I could print them on standard 8.5" x 11" paper & they turned out great! -Royce

Hi Royce,


I would be more than grateful for a set of instructions please, thanks very much for the offer  Very Happy

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
Back to top Go down
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net
Sponsored content





MGC P08, ABS version Empty
PostSubject: Re: MGC P08, ABS version   MGC P08, ABS version Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
MGC P08, ABS version
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» KWC's Mini Uzi (new version)
» CAW Kampfpistole, ABS version
» MGC Thompson ... Dummy only version
» Tanaka M9 Evolution version
» My Hudson NAMBU - old version

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
MP40's Modelguns Forum :: Modelgun Reviews-
Jump to: