Help me please my M9 don't fire well

Hello guys,

So, i recently have a marushin M9 model kit and everything was ok when i do the first test with only 2 cartridges(1 with marushin cap and the other with MG). I had the noise "bang", the smoke and the shell was ejected.
Anyway, today i prepared 6 cartridges like the turorial (with silicone grease, silicone oil,etc...). When i go, the shell is well ejected but no sound and no smoke just the ejection!!! For all the cartridge prepared. This is wired no??
I think it's maybe a problem with the gun but i don't know where.
Someone have a idea???

I'm really disapointed because the first test was great and now

Thanks

Hi Mono'

Am I correct thinking that each of the 6 cartridges you loaded today have fired, that is they've fired when you pull the trigger, blowback the slide to extract and eject each cartridge, and chamber the next one correctly

The "only" things missing are Smoke and a loud "Bang"

If this is the case, it seems to me the gun itself is working correctly and the problem is in the cartridge somewhere...
It may be that you've applied too much Silicone Grease and / or Oil. If the silicone is too thick it may not burn cleanly giving less smoke.
It may be sealing the cartridge and not allowing smoke and sound out very well...

If the gun is firing every cartridge and ejecting cleanly and strongly, the cartridge and gun are working as they should.

Try re-loading again, use only a thin smear of silicone oil, just enough to lubricate the 0-rings and edges of the cap.
Make sure the cap's powder charge and the firing pin which forms part of the "primer" is dry.

Hi Cerwyn,

OK,OK. I think you are right because it's true i put a lot of oil and grease. Well, yes, the gun eject all the cartridge and when i open it i see the cap is off.
So i have to try to reload with a very little bit of oil.

I will give you some news about my next tests Cerwyn, i have check the gun too and all parts are goods and well mounted.

Thank you very much Cerwyn, i will become nearly an "expert" of model gun


Bye

Hi mono'

yes, you'll soon become an expert as you become more familiar with your modelgun and loading cartridges.
Remember also that thorough cleaning of cartridges is essential to make sure they work correctly.
Please do let us know how you progress and feel free to ask anything

Hello,

I have test with only some oil in the cartridge, not elsewhere.
Test with 3 cartridges = 2 bads and 1 good.

Test with no oil at all (some oil stay on parts but not too much)
Test with 2 cartridges = 1 bad and 1 good.

Well i don't know what to think....When the cap is good, i have a big "bang" and the cartridge is really eject far !!! But why other cartridges don't work ?

Can you make for exemple 5 cartridges without problems???

See you

It is possible to achieve successful and consistent firing from cartridges. If you watch some of the videos posted on the site you'll see magazines of 20, 30 cartridges firing well in sub machine gun models, semi auto pistols can be seen firing several magazines of 7 or more cartridges in quick succession.
I've fired more than 100 cartridges through one model during a single session. Missfires start due to dirt buildup around the Detonator Pin and Chamber towards the end of these long sessions rather than any problem with the caps themselves.

Missfires ARE frustrating, they do occur for a variety of reasons.

Faulty caps are a possibility. More than one reference is made on the site of the occasional "bad" box of caps.
It could be faulty manufacture, it could be humidity has dampened the caps in storage.

Cleanlyness and careful loading of cartridges should give good results assuming the caps are dry and good.

All I can suggest at the moment is that you start over, make sure your cartridges are thoroughly clean and dry. Check the 0-ring on each piston is clean, undamaged and in good condition. Any cuts or damage to 0-rings can cause gas pressure leaks and poor firing.
Load the cartridges dry, apply only a small amount of silicone oil or grease to the 0-ring surface only.
It may be worth carefully pushing the piston closer towards the cap rather than positioning it flush with the top of the cartridge body.

Make sure the Barrel, detonator pin and chamber are thoroughly cleaned. Remove all traces of dirt and residue from the pin.

If this attempt fails, look carefully at the gun itself, is the slide lubricated to allow smooth movement over the frame?
Is the magazine feeding every cartridge into the chamber correctly?
Is the hammer reacting correctly to trigger squeezing?
If a cartridge fails to fire, what happens when you squeeze the trigger the second time, does it fire then or still fail?

Thanks a lot Cerwyn for this advices.

I have try again and that is wired because I have tried removing the o ring on the piston, almost all the cartridges fire well
It seems the o ring of the piston doesn't do his job. When the o ring is here, and the cartridge jam, when I unscrew the cartridge, I ear a little "psshiit" goes out of the cartridge. I think the air doesn't go out well.

Maybe I haven't oiled enough my o ring piston??

Thanks for all this informations Cerwyn but I have a doubt about your post.
Maybe I"m wrong with the word "piston". For me the piston is the part which enter in first in the cartridge. It's a little square part with a o ring around. Your photos don't show piston.
I have said I remove this o ring and the fire cycle is better.
I think you have understand what i mean but i'm not completely sure.

Anyway, if you tell me the o ring is necessary, i'm going to oil very carrefuly my o ring.

Hi Momo'

You were right to doubt my post, I was referring to MGC Beretta M9, not the Marushin Beretta you have which uses a different cartridge design
My error, for which I apologise my friend.

Loading instructions for the Marushin type cartridge can be found here:

I know there are 2 slightly different types of Marushin's centre fire Beretta cartridge. My own M9 Dolphin model was supplied with 5 cartridges. These have a different 0-ring set-up on the Primer and Firing Pin unit... this is the part that pushes into the cartridge base.
Firing with these 5 produced rather poor results, lack of blowback power being one problem.

Cartridges that I bought seperately have more substantial 0-rings around the Primer / Firing Pin as can be seen here:


It is possible perhaps that Marushin redesigned the cartridge to give better results ( ), I can say that these newer types do fire very well even with the 0-ring fitted to the part you insert into the cartridge first during loading.

All Marushin cartridges rely on the cap itself being able to slide smoothly inside the cartridge during firing. The cap acts as the Piston to give blowback. It's essential therefore that the outer edges of the plastic cap have some lubrication to assist smooth travel.
If the cap sticks or is slowed by friction, blowback can be poor.

Could you check the 0-ring types fitted to your Primer/Firing Pin please If these differ to the photo above, this may be part of your problem

Also, try lightly greasing the cap's outer edges as you load, and let us know what happens please

Hi,

You don't have to apologize, it's ok.
So, I can tell you all my cartridges are exaclty the same as the loading guide instruction :
- Cartridge body
- Cartridge base
- Striker pin (which hit the cap to ignite)
- drilled and grooved piston (that this part I remove the o ring).

My doubt is this one :
If I remove o ring of "drilled piston", the air go out easier (I suppose). More, the drilled piston move easier in the cartridge.

I have to say I am a beginner with model gun, I just begin to discover, so I looking for the goods things to do.
I have to try another time about five cartridges with the o ring on psiton and I tell you the result.

Hi All

My own experience is that ALL marushin carts with the "Donut" type oring piston work a lot better with the oring removed!!
Take for example the case of the XM177 cart, basicaly the same (are know there are a lot of differences but the upper section is same principle with cap acting as a seal) but no Oring and they have to blowback a LOT further...
It seemed to me with the piston oring fitted it encouraged gas to be passed backwards through the non ideal primer oring setup.
Use them without the oring on the piston:)

Coooool I have a new friend called JohnnyV
I see I'm not the only in this situation and I'm especially happy because it's means I'm not too bad

Thanks Johnny for your help

Thanks very much for your input John It certainly does help to get more than one source of opinion and experience.

I'll have to try firing my Marushin M9 with the 0-rings removed just to see what differences there are. I have to say they fire very well with the O-ring in place, it'll be interesting to see how they go without it
Marushin's MP40/UZI cartridge works perfectly well without any O-ring, the cap makes a good enough seal to cycle the '40 especially.

I often wondered why Marushin supplied the M9 centre fire cartridges with the O-rings in a seperate bag within the box

Momocampo, you'll soon find that Modelguns can be very frustrating things to make work properly at times Part of the fun is overcoming problems so don't think of yourself as bad at it my friend, we're all learning new things about these models every day.
One good reason why this forum of ours is so successful is we all learn from each others' experiences all the time

Hi Cerwyn
I can never translate as well as I would like to but i believe tucked away inside the Japanese instructions is a small bit of text "sort" of saying use orings if needed???
Without the orings I think smoke moves better in barrel..... could just be optimistic, subjective, wishful thinking though
Do let us know what you think when you try it!!

Hi John,

Wouldn't it really useful to know what reasons would make the use of the O-rings necessary Google Translate is my only means of translating Japanese to English but that isn't perfect

For some reason I find I get very little smoke from any of my modelguns, certainly nowhere near what can be seen on videos.
Perhaps silicone oil or grease doesn't burn well enough to make smoke. One oil that does smoke a lot is mineral based 3in1 but that isn't well suited to rubber 0-rings

I will certainly try my Marushin M9 without them, I shall try videoing it to show momocampo that successive firing is possible... now I've said that it'll probably break as soon as the camera's rolling

Not much smoke out of my models either, if that consoles you ;-)

smootik wrote:

Not much smoke out of my models either, if that consoles you ;-)

And yet, watch many videos, Shiraaya's especially and smoke pours out of them