Marushin Colt M1911 ...Continued firing problems

I have my first modelgun and I'm finding continual firing issues. When I first got it I didn't know about the correct lube etc, but after joing the forum found out the correct operations. So I bought some new cartridges and loaded them correctly with lithium grease on the caps and silicon spray into the cartridges, the first round of shots with the new cartridges all fired perfectly. However now they have stopped working again, I have stripped the gun and cleaned it, and I've noticed that the slide spring does not compress flat but to one side, could this be a cause and the slide is not returning properly and so the firing pin is not contacting with enough force of ignite the cap?

What could I do to ensure that the correct force is being applied to the cap?

I'm quite frustrated and need to use the gun in a play next week & I'm worried that it won't operate properly.

What model is it?
Kiwigunner

Marushin Colt Government M1911A1

Hello CARB



There are usually two common causes of missfires in Modelguns that catch newcomers out. I know they caught me with my first model

Cartridges, especially Marushin's PFC type must be spotlessly clean inside otherwise the cap won't slide smoothly when ignited.

Second is the Detonator Pin in the barrel has to be spotless. Unburnt grease sticks to the pin attracting residue from fired caps to it. This builds up quickly making cartridges stick and jam onto the pin.



Check these first.



Make sure the dished washer that sits in the cartridge nose, ahead of the cap is the correct way around. If that's in back to front the cap will not strike the firing pin



If all's well, try lightly greasing the cap's edges, don't spray the cartridge inners with silicone oil just in case the caps are getting wet.



If the recoil spring and guide rod weren't positioned correctly, chances are the slide wouldn't move smoothly. If it doesn't move forwards all the way it wouldn't feed the cartridge into the chamber far enough but that would be clearly seen.



Try these tips first and let us know how you get on. I'm sure we'll get it sorted in time for your Play.

Modelguns are very temperamental, and it sometimes takes tweaking and swearing to make them work more consistently.
I was as surprised as you that things can deteriorate quickly - from a perfect firer to a jammer.

Assuming the mechanical parts works smoothly (when cycling by hand you do not feel blockages) it is all down to how to cap part operates. Cartridge, chamber, detonator pin in the barrel - all of that must be clean and not misaligned. Tolerances are quite tight to ensure cap power is used efficiently, but they also mean it's easy to jam when something changes - such as buildup of residue on detonator pin that Cerwyn mentioned.

When you say "stop working" you mean that cap does not fire at all when you pull trigger (as it looks from your description), or action is too weak to cycle the slide/eject cartridge?

To be honest the only modelgun that works (almost) perfetly for me is the expensive Tanio Koba GM-7 (1911). Other have their fits, even revolvers without blowback!

I keep fingers crossed for you to resolve model issues!

Thanks guys. I'll try cleaning the detonator pin, I'm cleaning the cartridges now, and I'll give them a good scrub too.
My dished washer doesn't appear to have any difference to either side. Both sides are flat?

I've finished giving the cartridges and the gun a darn good clean. Made sure that the washers moved freely within the cartridges, and put grease on the base of the caps, loaded 7 rounds. Only 1 fired.

I'm getting quite frustrated now.

I feel for you. We've all been through this before...

Could be a bad batch of caps, these happen and cause a lot of grief and frustration.

If you tried to remove dud caps from cartridge (carefully! they can explode!), do they have imprint of detonator pin?

My last batch of caps continually had impressions of the firing pin on them, these ones don't seem to.

But really, what are the chances of getting two batches of dud caps in a row? Is there anyway to tell if it is the caps?

I don't know a foolproof way of checking caps. In the past I tried to detonate them manually (hammer + pin in a secure enclosure) but such "dud" caps worked out of the model. Surprisingly, I also tried to make caps wet, then dry them and test - they worked as well, so there must be some other process.

For me bad caps fall apart instead of exploding when hit with detonator pin. They crumble, or they get deep pin impressions.

When there is no sign of pin, it means that hammer/firing pin system does not seem to work correctly.

If you have modelling clay, you can put a little amount in empty caps, then manually "fire"and eject them to see if mechanically system works. If it does, you will get impressions in the clay. This should help in troubleshooting.

I know what you mean, these problems drive all modelgun folks a bit mad from time to time, new owner or long-time collector. I hope this is a bit of consolation for you.

This is helping to know it's not just me.
Do you know if the depth that the cap is into the cartridge makes any sort of difference, I have unfortunately lost the rod that comes with the kit, so I have been inserting the caps into the top of the cartridge and then screwing the base on, could this be a cause?

It does make a difference. When cap is deeper, it will travel longer distance before it is hit with detonator pin, and striking force is higher. If cap sits shallow, it may get hit before there is enough impact, and not ignite.

When I did tests with hammer light hits, or hits with little travel did not ignite the cap. It had to be hit harder.

You can use another round object with same diameter to delicately push cartridge deeper. Do not use a screwdriver or pointy thing, as you may hit charge and detonate it prematurely. Original tools push on the rim only. Sometimes wooden chopstics are the right diameter, or can be easily modified.

Okay, I tried wedging the cap in a bit further. The first shot fired straight away the second shot had to be cocked & fired 4 times but then did fire?

Hi CARB



I know how frustrating this is, believe me



Just so I know exactly which system your Marushin Colt uses, can you tell me please which of the following two cartridge types it uses



1. https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t922-loading-marushin-9mm-mp40-uzi-cartridges

( they won't be 9mm of course, but does the cartridge only have 3 parts like these:?: )



2. https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t1869-beginner-s-guide-loading-marushin-beretta-m9-cartridges

(main differences are plain, not dished washer and 0 ring sealed firing pin)



Assuming that all Marushin cartridges need the cap positioning the same distance from the pin, here's a diagram of the loading tool commonly used:



I did notice you said you greased the base of the caps, I'd suggest you apply the grease to the edges of the cap as that'll hel them slide within the cartrdge body

Is this a new modelgun or a second hand one:?: , do you know if it's factory built or assembled from a kit

[img][/img]

This is my cartridge.

I believe the gun is factory made, I bought it from www.plugfirecapgunsuk.com (who has been incredibly helpful, if you've not bought from him I would recommend as his after sales service is superb!!)

Thanks.

Thanks for the photo CARB, this helps a lot and answers a few questions.

These are Centre Fire type cartridges and rely on the gun's firing pin striking the "primer" pushing it into the cap to ignite it. The single 0-ring around this "primer" is critical acting as a gas seal once the cap's fired.

If the 0-ring is damaged in any way, it'll not seal properly but may also cause the "primer" to stick in the cartridge base hampering its' travel and reducing the strike against the cap.



I have the same design of cartridge in 9mm as supplied with my Beretta M9. I found them poor performers to be honest, not by missfiring but by losing gas pressure leading to poor blow-back.



Marushin's Beretta cartridge now has a second 0-ring around the primer and works much better.



Check the 0-rings for nicks, cuts or splits. If damaged, replace the 0-rings. If in good condition make sure the 0-rings get a light coat of grease and position the primer flush with the cartridge base.



If you still get persistant missfires, check the gun's firing pin. It should move smoothly in the firing block. The pin is usually plastic and can break or damage the end that strikes the "primer". This will stop the gun firing (my WaShan Beretta M9 suffered this problem recently)



Thanks very much for recommending John at PFCGUK. He's a regular contributor here and it's great to know you have found him very helpful

CARBr6 wrote:

I have been inserting the caps into the top of the cartridge and then screwing the base on, could this be a cause?

A fe more points
- when cap is pressed deep by the tool, after cartridge is chambered it will be actually pushed by detonator pin a bit back to the correct depth. Just far enough from pin in the cartridge that detonates cap.
- sometimes this causes detonation during chambering when cap flies back too much and hits pin in cartridge (my Marushin P38 with is notorious for that).
- if you insert cap just enough, and it is pushed by pin in cartridge, cap may get crushed and damaged during process, preventing fire. It can be also too close to the pin in cartridge not giving enough force to strike.

Working!!!!
A MASSIVE thankyou to John at PFCGunsUK, took a while and plenty of examination, but we came to a solution and I am firing on all cylinders (as it were!!)

Once again, couldn't recommend John highly enough, excellent pre-sales, excellent after sales, couldn't ask for a more helpful individual.

If you want to buy a PFC (or blank firer for that matter) I would tell you to go to John every time.

Thanks.

Great to hear you are happy!
John (I hope he does not read it) provides fantastic support, he is much more than "just a shop" :-)

(he also told me what the silver sticker in the box was for, not I have a shiny silver breech!!)

An amalgamation of many little prbolems all adding up to cause one big one, detonator rod a little too short, spring presssure a little too low etc, all caused misfiring.

CARBr6 wrote:

An amalgamation of many little prbolems all adding up to cause one big one, detonator rod a little too short, spring presssure a little too low etc, all caused misfiring.

That's the worst case - if there is one bigger problem it's easier to find and fix. Multiple details add to confusion...

Good that you guys got on top of that :-D