XM177 Loading Info Please?

Post by bob


hi,, would it affect the weapon if i was to use 2 x 7mm caps instead of 1x5mm and 1x7mm

regards bob


Edit: Refer to https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-caps-cartridges-and-magazines-f6/yet-more-different-cheap-caps-t430.htm#2835 for further discussion re these 5mm caps... Cerwyn

Post by Claymore

I think you will find that the 5mm and 7mm caps are exactly the same power so you will get no advantage at all apart form the fact that getting the 7mm caps to fit into each other and detonate will not be easy. stick to the 5 and 7mm if those 2 together are not working then the problem lies somewhere else.

Post by shazhib

Agree with what Claymore said.
There is no differences from a power perspective, but the other problem I can think of is, 7mmx2 eats up more space within the rounds, this could cause an incomplete bolt closure (for closed bolt functioning guns) end up miss-fire or unwanted full auto.

Even though Marushin themselves instruct the use of 5 + 7mm caps in the XM177 and M16 series getting these to fire well in full Auto seems a huge headache.

I accepted a suggestion recently to try 5+7mm caps in my Marushin MP40 as I was looking for more smoke, muzzle flash and maybe a bit more noise too.
Bearing in mind that general opinion is never to double cap, I tried anyway and found my MP40 jamming, misfeeding, and stovepiping regularly.
Switching back to the intended single 7mm cap resulted in faultless firing, no problems at all.

It occured to me then that my MP40 was reproducing exactly the same problems my XM177 does using 2 caps.
Has anyone successfully fired the XM / M16 using only a single 7mm cap?
Could this be why our XM's are so troublesome?

It's next on my list to try but would be interested to hear from you lads

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by shazhib

cerwyn,

Same thing happened to my MP40. I tried dual cap, 7+5, to expect more kick, however, likewise you experience, jam, misfire.....went back to single cap, it is usual my nice firing MP40 with no jam.

I heard a story firing Marushin M16 with single cap, you need to sand bolt, hammer head, inside upper receiver till your finger print went off.

Post by Mark

I have successfully fired my XM177 with one 7mm cap per cartridge. The main trick it seems is to ensure that the firing mechanism has been throughly de-burred with sand paper (emery paper) or files until the parts are shinny. Then, use the appropriate lubrication in the action. Also, the cartridges themselves need attention ensuring that they are loaded and lubricated as well. The Marushin cartridges are tricky to get just right but they do work.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by bob

i have now discovered that my local toy shop sells 5mm caps for £1 per 200, so bought them and used with 1 x7mm and fired a full mag no probs

Hi shazhib,

It may well all be down to build quality and setting up the gun properly in all cases then?
If 2 caps produces excessive power in the Marushin 9mm cases, enough to run the bolt too fast maybe so it misfeeds could that be the XM's problems too?
Maybe losing your fingerprints through all that sanding could be worth the effort and pain

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

bob wrote:

i have now discovered that my local toy shop sells 5mm caps for £1 per 200, so bought them and used with 1 x7mm and fired a full mag no probs

Hi Bob,
That sounds like a bargain to me!
What are these caps like? They might be worth looking at for that price.
Can you tell us any more please?
Cerwyn

Post by Mark

Cerwyn,

Bob is most likely referring to either the "Super bang" brand "strip" or "ring" caps or some other caps that are designed for cap guns. I have found these types of caps here in supermarkets and in toy stores. These just happen to be approximately 4.5mm in diameter but they will work after a fashion. I have bought these caps for as little as $.79 they usually use potassium chlorate, red phosphorus sand and glue in them.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Hiya Mark,

I think I've seen them! Redplastic rings with 6, 8 or 10 little caps moulded on?
I didn't think they would have enough power to be any use in pfc cartridges to be honest.

I still think that really careful setting up of the guns' internals and correct lubing of the cartridges is the way to go if my experimentwith the MP40 is anything to go by.

I shall try a single 7mm cap in my XM177 asap!

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Mark

Hi ya Cerwyn!

Yep, you definitely have seen them! Yes, they really don't work all that well and they are just good for a "Booster" that's really all..I just assembled another Marushin MP40 they do work great out of the box (kit?) The funny thing is that I didn't do any real tunning tricks on it I just merely assembled it from the box.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by bob

hi, no these are 5mm in strips coming in a blue plastic box with a clear lid, they are yellow and exactly the same as the red mg or marushin ones i have previously paid £7 for, i have again refilled my mag, fired single shot, two round bursts and full auto with no jams,
ill try and find the leaflet that comes with these

Post by Mark

Hmmm,

You must be buying some unknown type of 5mm caps that we haven't seen yet. That, or someone has been importing the WaShan caps from Taiwan. The WaShan caps are packaged similarly to what you describe...
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Phil_D

They sound exactly the same as the ones i got with my very first model gun way back in 1979, a Browning 1910, of which i only have the magazine and brass round left

If i remember correctly, hit with a hammer on concrete they where very loud !
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