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 Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44

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Cerwyn
phobus
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phobus
Modelgun Master
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phobus


Number of posts : 275
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PostSubject: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 12:07 pm

I nearly went crazy and spent loads of money on this :

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/sport-systeme-dittrich-mp44-submachine-guns/Other-Military-Guns/764866

Unfortunately ( or fortunately ... ) it is now sold pending .

Does anyone on here know about these ?

I asked the vendor loads of questions but as it was sold he did not bother answering ...

Apologies if it is a blank firer - ( I am uncertain it is not advertised as such ) certainly it is a none firearm and I found a couple of youtube vids of what appears to be an extremely high end quality MP44 replica all steel etc etc .

I don,t know much about the MP44 but I was taken by its quality and presentation and I know they seem to be very highly rated on here ?

So does anyone know about this model mentioned above - perhaps German members will be familiar ?

Thanks

Carl. Smile
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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11090
Age : 65
Location / Country : North Wales
Registration date : 2008-07-20

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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 1:43 pm

Hi Carl,


Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  764866_-_photo_1_1432309667_img


Some time ago now A Reenactor had contacted me about a Shoei MP43 or MP44 to replace his MGC68 MP40
He ended up buying a new German made MP44. I'm not sure but this could be the same manufacturer. Price would certainly put it in the same range.


The guns are built as Live Firing rifles but also offered with inert barrels and upper receivers so they become inert Replicas.


That's about all I know unfortunately.

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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Sommarkatze
Modelgun Perfectionist
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Sommarkatze


Number of posts : 173
Location / Country : Sweden.
Registration date : 2011-10-01

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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 1:56 pm

Might not be the same, but I know these are made in Germany as well by a company called something with sport too?

http://www.zib-militaria.de/epages/61431412.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61431412/Products/20205

Sadly its in 22 so the magasine is differant and also the cocking handle.

But maybe something still? Wink
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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11090
Age : 65
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Registration date : 2008-07-20

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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 2:40 pm

Sommarkatze wrote:
Might not be the same, but I know these are made in Germany as well by a company called something with sport too?

http://www.zib-militaria.de/epages/61431412.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61431412/Products/20205

Sadly its in 22 so the magasine is differant and also the cocking handle.

But maybe something still? Wink


As I recall, the MP44 eventually bought by the Reenactor I mentioned was a converted live firing 7.92mm rifle, probably in semi automatic only I'd guess.
The manufacturers also offered it in Non-Firing spec. with solid barrel, completely inert Upper Receiver. It was priced at well over £2000
I may still have some photos, I'll search for them. 

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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phobus
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phobus


Number of posts : 275
Age : 63
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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 2:44 pm

Thanks guys

I am pretty sure this is a blank firer now having done a bit of research .

The rounds shown are blanks in boxes but what calibre ?

Never seen or heard of a 7.92 x 33mm Kurz blank round but there is definately an AK blank round . I have a few left over from a vz58 I had some years ago .

In some of the pics you notice the high levels of detail on this - sheer build quality .

Still the price is hard to justify surely ?

Carl


Last edited by phobus on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11090
Age : 65
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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 4:17 pm

Hi Carl


Looking at the photos, and reading the seller's description, I'd say those rounds are Inert not blanks.
It seems it is possible to source 7.92mm Kurz blank ammo, have a look here:- 




Over £2,000 for an Inert Replica MP44 is ridiculously expensive bearing in mind Shoei models can be bought for half that.
However, a fully functioning Blank Firer in correct calibre, with all the extras almost seems reasonable when MP38/40s are £1,200 or more.


It's got to be a very rich man's toy though (wish I was a rich man)

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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phobus
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phobus


Number of posts : 275
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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 5:30 pm

You guys who own the Shoei MP44 ?

Would you say it is comparable in quality with this here ?

What kind of materials are used in the Shoei model ?

Which is best firing or the inert one that cycles rounds ?

Carl Smile

Got me interested now hehe ............ cheers
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Pydracor
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Number of posts : 174
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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeFri Jun 05, 2015 10:26 pm

It's like Cerwyn said: Sport-Systeme Dittrich is a german manufacturer of real-steel guns who specialized in new guns that fire live ammo, but that look like historic ones.
You can find their homepage here

It's not the one you linked there, Sommarkatze, that's a far cheaper model... don't know that replica and the site says nothing about the materials used, but it has very good reviews there. The correct link from Zib-Militaria would be this Very Happy
(the shop is very recommendable by the way)

Sport-Systeme Dittrich produce everything themselves, even the tools they need to produce the guns are produced by themselves Very Happy Being produced as real-steels, the guns are of superhigh quality, this of course is reflected in the price range. They have some extremely interesting guns for high-end WW2 reenactors or collectors!

As a german manufacturer they produce semi-auto guns only and you're right, Cerwyn, they also build their live-ammo models as pure decoration guns which do nothing but cycle dummy rounds manually.
The price list for their "modelguns" can be found here. I am pretty sure, that these guns are worth the money, the prices still bring a tiny tear to my eye Laughing

I have never had a Dittrich gun in my hands but I own a Shoei MP44 (it's the airsoft version though).
Shoei has achieved a look and feel, that comes extremely close to real steel, but they're handicapped by japanese law: They cannot build their guns with steel receivers.
Don't get me wrong, the metal they use is of highest quality, it's sturdy, has the correct weight and even seems to age similar to the real counterpart.

But if you want to go the whole 9 yards, you'd have to go with the stamped steel receiver of Dittrich's MP44. Oh, but before, you'd have to decide if this is worth the extra charge of over £1.000 for you... or over £2.000 extra charge for an MKb42... or over £5.000 (!!!) extra charge for an FG42 Wink
Whole 9 yards always have their price Smile

For me, it'd be Shoei all the way, but everyone has to decide that for him/herself Smile

If you guys want to know more about anything on the Dittrich homepage just let me know, I can translate for you.
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JatiMatic
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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeSat Jun 06, 2015 12:11 am

Looks like an interesting company.

Regards.
Jati
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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11090
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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeSun Jun 07, 2015 10:19 am

phobus wrote:
You guys who own the Shoei MP44 ?

Would you say it is comparable in quality with this here ?

What kind of materials are used in the Shoei model ?

Which is best firing or the inert one that cycles rounds ?

Carl Smile

Got me interested now hehe ............ cheers

Hi Carl,


Not having seen one of these SSD in the flesh, it's difficult to say how quality compares to Shoei's models. Being built from Live Fire Real guns though, the SSD would more likely be of a better quality purely from a strength point of view.
Shoei's models are quite superb IMHO and a damned sight cheaper than the SSD.
I believe Shoei use aluminium for receivers and Zinc Alloy for bolts etc. as per Japanese Legal restrictions.
My own Shoei MP44 is the inert version that cycles rounds by hand. I also have a Cap-Firing shell ejecting MKb42(H).
Shoei's firing models have always struggled to achieve reliable and consistent performance. The MKb42 was a new design, having a new style cartridge for better performance. 


While it's true to say firing is better than previous models I've seen, it still has problems.
The brass cartridge is Heavy as are the Bolt, Carrier assembly. Travel of the bolt is long too so that cartridge has a lot of mass to move. 
However, I have managed to fire 30 consecutive rounds in one burst twice. Unfortunately wear and cart damage reduces the number of consecutive rds fired pretty quickly.


Shoei do warn owners that the higher pressures generated by the new design cartridge will eventually cause wear damage. There's good reason for them to dub the new cart "High-Impact"  
The Brass cartridge appears to be getting crushed between bolt and chamber. This causes the two halves of the cart. to spread and flare out at the joint. Rims get battered and damaged quickly too. The bolt-face shows signs of wear quickly.

8ace has been experimenting with different cartridge materials and designs and hopefully, later this year, 8ace will have finished a new Aluminium cart that will outperform Shoei's brass original. The prototype Aluminium cartridge really performed well.  
The Bolt-face has been replaced with a steel one which will stop the wear problem. 
Once everything is made and ready I'll sort a video out and a detailed review of modifications.

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Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.
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pitfighter
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pitfighter


Number of posts : 620
Location / Country : Hollywood, California
Registration date : 2008-09-07

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PostSubject: Re: Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44    Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  Icon_minitimeWed Jun 10, 2015 6:05 am

There was one for sale on this page for a while - https://www.facebook.com/groups/309898519197262/
It is a deactivated SSd replica MP44 -

I have one of the SSd live-firing MP44's it is great - although there have been a lot of complaints about them, see the K98 forum - ours has run great with the reworked mags in blank and live use.
But, it has not shot over 200 rounds yet.

Honestly if you're going to have a replica go with the Shoei - why spend so much more for a really expensive non-firing replica?

I also have two 1945 MP44's - if you're going to shell out, why not find a deactivated original?

Cerwyn knows I really like my Shoei MP44, too -that's the one I can keep in the office, it cycles live ammo, too Smile

My newly stowed collection of 8X33 headstamps by date/factory/batch

Sport-Systeme Dittrich MP44  IMG_18821_zps6aafcb77
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