Marushun Metal XM177 Kit vs Factory version?

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Hi, had a quick scan and did come up with this or I didn't notice.

Looking at buying a Marushin XM177e2 Full Metal kit from Francky and I would like to know are th kits good?

Francky says they are good, easy to build and a lot cheaper to buy. I believe what he says, however just thought a comment or two from anybody that has both or either. I will be buying a factory version any way but I can get the kit version quicker ie almost got the cash now.

But messing up something that is cheaper, by half according to Francky isn't cheaper than buy factory in first place if you see what I mean. The thing is the kit has a plastic barrel buut may be could buy a metal version for it just the same.

*** Originally posted by mark ***


Hi Ray,

The Marushin M16 kits like the XM177 are fun to assemble if you like to compare small springs and parts to the pictures in the all Japanese instructions. Also, some parts like the stock to the receiver fit, will require filing/cursing to thread the parts together as the threads are very tight...I really don't have any idea where the kit has the "plastic" barrel rumor came from but, the barrel is zinc. (it's the flashhider that's plastic) Anyway, the kit is a fun project but, it is challenging project that will take some time to assemble if you are not firearms experianced. But, the kit will save you money and you will be able to say that you assembeled it yourself..

*** Originally posted by madmike ***


Hello!

I have a Marushin XM177E2 kit. It was fun to assemble but took me a whole day. And it needs reworking on some parts, like Mark said. Regarding the flash hider I added a steel one from Guarder Hong Kong (They make custom parts for airsoft) with 14 mm threads. It fits excellent, adds some weight and costs approx. US-$ 50. See the "modelgun modification section" for more details.


If you will get the factory assembled XM177E2, so you do not really need the kit. The factory assembled gun is said to feature a better built quality because the machinery was not used/worn when those guns were produced in the early 80s. And the factory version comes with the 30 round aluminum magazine which is no longer available. You can buy the steel 20 round "Vietnam War style" mag as a spare part anyway. The only drawback with the early versions is the heavy bolt assembly. It is said to create more recoil, but it is sometimes too heavy to cycle correctly as the caps are too weak. So it seemsthat one needs two caps (5 and 7 mm) to fire the gun correctly, but two caps can damage the carts.

Greetings

MadMike

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Cheers for the feedback gents.

Just to clarify the early 80s version is that factory?
Is the heavy bolt on the factory version?
Yes I think it is the flashhider part.

I have one already that I got from this forum I think it was kickback. It is just so good although has receiver and fore grip wobble. I have got feedback from my other post and reduced some of it so far but like some say it adds to the realism of a worn real gun probably.

I am not a gunsmith but have built the Marushin kits many years ago. Really enjoyed has it got me 'inside' the gun so if it went wrong I had the confidence to take a part, properly and resolve.

My other thinking is if I get a kit one or two then I have spare parts for my factory one. Plus get another factory one just for the collection and not to be 'palyed' with. Is this a good idea or are parts cheaper/easier to get?

Only thing I am worried about is buying all these guns and the VCR bill taking them off me, no probs if can't buy any more as I will have my collection of interest.

I wouldn't need any serious tools and the filing is it critical?
I remember my days at school and metal work wasn't my best subject I took woodwork instead. Although still a bit kak handed.

*** Originally posted by madmike ***


Yes, the early versions untill 1983 are the factory assembled guns. They feature the heavier bolt. But there are also some late factory assembled guns with the "new lighter bolt assembly". Then the box had a notice saying the gun has the "new lighter bolt". Since 1984 the kits are available. They feature the lighter bolt and 20 rd magazine.

Well, of course it is your decision what you buy. But I think you do not need a whole kit just for spares. If you will need spares some day you will get them as spare part supply was never a problem with the Marushin M16/XM177E2/MP40 kits.

To make your collection richer I would buy another gun and not two or three Marushin XM177. But that is your decision, not mine

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Hi MadMike,

I hear what you say and take note and agree, mate. I am in a ponder I could get another different gun or a 'spare' XM177.

I like the XM177 so much because of the metal it just give that real feel or near as I'll ever get. May be I'll get the kit to 'learn' how it's put together thus feel better should I have to repair or what ever.

On the other hand loathed to buy any more in case we have to hand them back with the new VCR bill and no compensation.

May be a little more thought about this.

*** Originally posted by jay851 ***


hi dartec
i may be wrong but i was under the impression that the vcr bill was against trading replica firearms not owning them,thats why most brits on here are buying up everything that they can.

jay

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Hi Jay,

I could be wrong mate as I have found the VCR bill and all the forum posts very confusing. In fact will be posting my MP's reply to my letter in a post in the VCR section.

I just panic because I love the model guns too much and guns as I have since being a kid.. I would even pay a license fee to keep buying them and/or owning them.

Cheers
Ray

*** Originally posted by needsmoremgs ***


The lower is a straight copy of the real thing more or less so you can just pick up the manual for the real deal and use that (in english too).

the upper though, you are somewhat on your own.

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Hi, got the Xm177 kit from Francky. I do like the idea of building it sounds fun (and frustrating probablyall at the same time).

There is some appeal just looking at the kit and all the parts if you know what I mean.

cheers to all.

*** Originally posted by madmike ***



Hello Ray!

Have you assembled your kit yet?

Greetings

Madmike

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Spooky, as I was just looking at my kit while waiting for the emails to down load and followed note to your reply (MadMike).

I have just loaded up 40 rounds and installed in mags to 'play' with my ready made one.

As for the kit still in the box. Waiting for a clear weekend to set about it. It may take a day but keep a day spare in case my kak handedness takes over!

Hope to have built by xmas as I have a few days off when family out at work/college so may do it then (if no list from the wife).

Looking for a MTM Case-Gard case to take the cartridges (have 9mm, 45, 44, 3 as have 60 new and 15 old. Hope to get another 40 from Francky again so have the full 100 new ones.

Thank you for asking.
Ray

*** Originally posted by madmike ***


Hello Ray! Yes, I think it is right to plan a complete day just for assembling your kit.

I forgot you already have a factory assembled XM177E2. How well does it work? Do you use two (one 7 mm and one 5 mm) caps in one cart? Finally, where did you get it from?

Greetings

MadMike

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Quote :

Hope to get another 40 from Francky again so have the full 100 new ones.

I know what you mean Ray, i like to have at least 100 cartridges of any given caliber unfortunately, they get to be expensive i might even have as much money in my cartridges as in my modelguns!

But, i don't mind as the caps/cartridges are the heart of the modelgun and without the cartridges/caps we just get to look at them..

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Hi All,

Yes buying the accessories is the same amount as another gun, but need to tool up my carts etc and start to play more instead of just looking at them.

Got my Xm177 from kickback, very pleased with it. Loaded up two mags worth (7mm & 5mm in each cart) and ready to go in single shot mode. But got many jams and a couple of two shot burst this is with brand new carts and mag (from the kit). So back to drawing board and may hold, on any more extras for the XM177 till sort things out.

But tooling up my Beretta Italian with extra mags and real look from modelgun.co.uk in new year. Just love this hand gun, it's very heavy and really has a metal feel although abs and works every time.

Also, my V10 with extra mags and real look. Must be MGC are the oen to concentrate on?

MGC M16 does this work every time as their hand guns?
May have a look at them but don't fancy the all plastic?
Could you swap their internals into the Marushin metal frame? Best of both worlds no/yes?

*** Originally posted by mark ***


Ray,

I really recomend not using more than one cap per cartridge as the over pressure will damage the hard to get cartridges and it is really required to have more than one cap to get the "blow-back" action. If you use the proper amount of grease inside the cartridge case, the magazine feeds smoothly (no burrs on the feed lips) and your hammer spring isn't too strong..The Marushin M16 series will work great if certain areas are attended to.


It sounds as if i need to get one of the MGC Italian Berettas! MGC seems to know their handguns and they are usually quite reliable with few exceptions like the "chrome" 1911 barrels etc. Spare parts that are nice to have for favorites that are fired continusly are the barrel, cartridges,magazines and the detonator and perhaps some small springs...

Spare modelgun magazines are always nice to have as usually real firearms magazines won't work in them as their dimensions are different.

As far as just collectiong MGC modelguns only, that's up to the individual i personally like them all The KSC modelguns are basically MGC guns Marushin Berettas are gettting much better (except for their markings) and Hudson is making far better modelguns now than in the past..

My experiance with the MGC M16 series is limited, the all plastic doesn't bother me even after handling my Marushin zinc M16's (it does after handling my real AR15 though )

I really don't think that you can swap the internals as they are diferent dimensionally...

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Hi Mark,

Just to check you say' ...it is really required to have more than one cap ..' but recommend not, sorry if sound a bit slow. Or are you meaning one live with a 7mm 'blank' to keep the pressure?

Can I check my understanding: Marushin say two cartridges (7 & 5mm) whereas MGC only need one?

I will try one live and one blank this weekend. Also, will check magazine lips and other areas for burrs, good point. Not sure about how to check hammer spring and what to do if too strong

Good information on which parts are the neccessary spares like:
barrel, dentonator, cartridges, magfazines and springs. On th esubject of springs do they (Japan) a spring set that is say all the springs in a model gun as a complete set or do you have to get one by one?

May be Francky could put soemthing like this together with his knowledge and knowledge form members of this forum ... I've got my money ready!

Yes I recommend the MGC Italian and also the M9 which looks very similar. It's solid and has a real good feel and handling. May look at spare parts in readyness now you mention them. Plus my KSC 93r feels them same solidness but too good to fire still brand new as is my Glock 18c.

Now for envy -- you have the real AR15 - have you posted pics? be noce to see some if not and a mini video .... start to drool .....

*** Originally posted by mark ***


Originally, Marushin recomended the use of two caps as the all zinc earlier M16's had zinc bolt carriers that where too heavy and, the hammer spring had too much tension so, one cap had a hard time making enough pressure to blow back the bolt reliably..

So, Marushin changed the bolt to the lighter aluminum bolt that of course helped the blow-back action immensley..I never use more than one cap anymore as i have noticed cartridge damage has occured..

In the Marushin assembly instructions they have illustrations of the hammer spring mods that will help "tune" the springs tension and they do illustrate the use of two caps in the cartridge. I really don't recomend the use of two caps


The magazine lips are usually sharp and have lot's of burrs that catch the cartridges and add to the friction/drag..

Ask francky about the availability of the springs as they are probably available from the factorys only.

The KSC M93R is very fun to shoot and they share the same cartridges as the MGC Beretta's so, get out the M93 and shoot it!

Yes, i have a real AR15 (an M4 copy) i can post pics if you want although, this is really a modelgun site...

*** Originally posted by jay851 ***


hi guys
i have recently purchased a 'factory' m655 which i tried to fire with one cap,and it just did'nt have enough 'puff' to blow the bolt back. so i have been using 2 caps and it fires lovely now,but it does damage the cartridge around the rim when its blown back against the extractor.

jay

*** Originally posted by mark ***


Hi Jay,

I think that the hammer springs are fairly heavy in the factory built Marushin M16 series and they compound the problems with the older zinc bolt carriers. The Marushin M16 cartridges require grease in my opinion to work properly. The main "problem" with the Marushin cartridges is the threads on the base of the cartridges these threads are not pressure proof and they leak enough gas to affect performance. Now, if a person was to make little rubber gasgets (or O-rings) that fit into the cartridge base and helped to seal the gasses in that would increase the efficiency of the Marushin cartridges.

The use of grease inside the cartridges helps the piston/cap body move and that helps to eliminate the performance robbing friction.

By the way Jay..I have noticed that you list a broken Hudson AK in your sig line what's broken on it?

*** Originally posted by jay851 ***


hi mark
the ak is not so much broken but most of the internals are missing.
it is the old type and i have priced up the parts i would need to get it going and it would work out cheaper to buy a new one .
i added it to my sig to make it look better .
i will get some pics up later of my m655 as i have added a r.i.s unit to the front and a m203 on it.it looks quite impressive now and does'nt look so 'unbalanced' as the normal m655 does with fixed stock and carbine front end.

jay

*** Originally posted by dartec ***


Have some 'gun smithing' to do over the weekend by the look of things and will use only one and update my results with my model. Will get round to assembling the kit too asap.

Will have a go with my 93R also.

I was thinking more of emailing me some pic of your Ar16 Mark. I just love guns and any gu related stuff is a must for me.

many thanks, ray.