Looking for info - Kokusai Colt SAA

Greetings all. I have recently acquired a Colt SAA and have some questions. I have trawled this forum, before I bought it. See lots of photos below.

It’s a metal Kokusai Sangyo SMG ‘model of 9.78’. It came with no related carts, but with a bunch of .45 Colt inert rounds, in a holster rig. It looks to be in very good condition. It doesn’t seem much used, or smell fired. My questions are:

The chambers have a metal ring insert at the mouth. These are removable. Did these come with the gun originally?  (Literally as I write this I’m wondering if they are for .22 blanks….  I have none to try).

The .45 Colt rounds are too wide to fit. PFC rounds are the right width, but are too long (at least the ones I have. See pics below (the Colt cases are green from the belt loops).  Does anyone have any original rounds that I could buy?

Finally, any other insights or comments would be appreciated.

To answer one of my own questions, a .22 blank fits the insert snugly. I haven’t tried firing one, and I don’t particularly want to.

To assuage the avalanche of passive interest on this, the chamber inserts are for firing .22 blanks.

Hmm Interesting, The .22 adapters are obviously home made.
Not sure I would want to fire a blank through it, A shotgun primer maybe?
Has the firing pin been modified at all?

I have exactly the same model, But my cylinders are clear and take the dummy carts you have (that are too long for yours) I also have the PFC carts too.

Apart from the barrel blockage being right at the end of the barrel, These are great replicas

I think those use the same cartridges as HWS. If you would like to sell it, hit me up with a pm.

Thanks, that is interesting. Were your cylinders made like that, or drilled out? Mine have cut outs between each chamber, and they look like they were done unofficially. Do yours? The hammer hasn’t been modified. I looked where it would strike on a rimfire and it looked like it would central as you’d expect on a pfc. I thought I’d find out and fired a 6mm short blank which it did very successfully. If you look at the pic it did strike centrally but has enough surface area and force to get the rim.

I agree, apart from the filled barrel it’s a great model - heavy with a good crisp mechanism. I think I’ll struggle getting pfc carts though.

If you buy the Edison Giocattoli Montecarlo shotgun caps they come with 2 shotgun shells, the metal bit of which fits perfectly in the Kokusai chambers allowing you to fire normal caps. Less fun but also an option.

https://karkkainen-com.azureedge.net/tuotekuva/ZOOM/8002605005185.jpg

Oh thanks - I’ve got a whole bunch of those somewhere!!

jwstacey thanks again for the tip. In the interests of science I did some testing: see images.

I loaded the Montecarlo end caps (which just pull off the ‘cartridge’, no cutting required), with an edison cap, an MGC 7mm and 5mm. All cycled fine and fired.

Edison cap. Perfect fit, as you’d expect. Quietest sound - but not bad.
7mm cap. A tight fit and sits a little proud. No danger of falling out. Good cap sound.
5mm cap. Fits but wobbly - could fall out, and perhaps could use something to help stay in (tiny bit of blu tac?). Loudest sound.

Sound measurements are subjective (also, I’m ex artillery so…). But my dog heard them.

All in all I’m very happy with this, in the the absence of pfc carts.

I can spare 6 of the Montecarlo shells if some worthy person wants them for their Kokusai. Only £600 (or entirely free, your choice).

Final question - what does it take to move on from being a ‘new member’ on this forum? Do I need to buy an admin a beer?

Glad to hear that does the job. We use Edison caps almost exclusively for our western live roleplay game I run. We use Kolser revolvers & Edison caps which have proved to be the most reliable and loud combination. As a knock on effect and due to the fact we buy our edison caps in bulk from Kayes who are the UK supplier, and I cant throw anything away, I have _lots_ of the shotgun shells if anyone needs them

I bet you do!!! Thanks again for the great tip!

Cerwyn wrote:

There you go oozlum, promotion as requested   You owe me a pint 

Thank you Cerwyn, one pint coming up, especially if you are ever near Salisbury

ppf. I've been here for 6 years and 'new member' is good enough for me

jwstacey wrote:

ppf. I've been here for 6 years and 'new member' is good enough for me

You appear to be even better geographically located to offer Cerwyn beer

I modified HWS plugfire cartridges by removing a section of the nose, then rounding this off to allow it to fit into the cylender.
Picture show  a modified cartridge, and for comparison the modified cartridge along side a Tanaka cartridge and an inert cartridge.

Cracking idea ml44mag. Thanks. That’s the carts in the image below, is that right?

Did you have access to metal work tools for this, or ‘dremel’ them?

Those are the correct cartridges.
The first ones I made by cutting the excess off the nose by hacksaw, then mounting the cartridge in a slow running electric drill I filed to profile finishing with various grades of Emery paper.
I now have a small metal lathe so it’s much easier.

ml44mag wrote:

Those are the correct cartridges.
The first ones I made by cutting the excess off the nose by hacksaw, then mounting the cartridge in a slow running electric drill I filed to profile finishing with various grades of Emery paper.
I now have a small metal lathe so it’s much easier.

Thank you. This hobby (in conjunction with another metal related one) is making me want to invest in a and learn to use some metal work tools. Not that I have anywhere to put them!

Hi there.
Seems other members have already replied majority of your questions, just few things to add.
It is quite difficult to get authentic Kokusai SAA cartridges as the company went out of business several years before, if you can have other solution (like you are discussing with other members), that would be way to go. The slot between a chamber of cylinder is an original work, a metal revolver have to have the slot to comply with a regulation.

Hope you enjoy your SAA, but as I mentioned, Kokusai has gone, do no suggest to action or fire around too much as replacement parts are difficult to get as well (especially, a hammer).

Regards,

S

Hello shazib. Many thanks for your insights - they are much appreciated.