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 Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"

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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:22 am

See Also :- http://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-reviews-f4/hudson-s-grease-gun-in-1973-t232.htm

Post by Claymore

HUDSON GREASE GUN





The grease gun is another weapon born from necessity during ww2. The Thompson was an expensive firearm to produce and although the M1A1 came in a weapon that could be made quickly and cheaply was needed and so the M3A1 was born.
It is a weapon very much in the mould of the sten, made from pressed steel (2 halves in this case) and of simplistic design even to the fact that it was full auto only. The gun came to be known as the grease gun and one look at it and no explanation as to why is needed.
There have been a number of modelguns made of this gun, MGC made a metal model (which Francky had for sale unfortunately way out of my price bracket but it is rare) and of course Hudson have made a metal one a plastic one and a HW one.
I cannot comment on the metal one (apart from that I want one) but I can on the HW and plastic.
The Hudson model seems (I have never seen a real grease gun) to accurately replicate the real thing in looks , the body is all one piece and the barrel is screwed to the body, the detonator pin and the housing for it screw into the barrel and the bolt simply slides into the body of the gun.




Both the plastic (new model) and the older HW version are exactly the same in look and design and so all parts are interchangeable , weight wise there is a slight difference as you would expect but not that much which possible explains why they released a plastic version rather than a HW (cost). It is therefore not a heavy gun and it feels like what it is, a tube, that said it is easier to hold than the sten because it does at least have a pistol grip it also has a stock, a metal skeleton one which is collapsible in that that it runs along the body of the gun and by simply pushing a button at the rear of the body the stock can be pulled out and locked in position. This is a usable stock and works well but I doubt it would have been used much in battle.
The magazine is a metal one and so adds some weight especially when fully loaded and this is a 45 cal gun so the rounds are large and heavy.
The bolt of this gun is an odd design unlike every other machine gun I can think of this gun has no cocking handle, the bolt simply has 2 round recesses in it which you push your fingers into which gives you the grip you need to cock the bolt, also due to no cocking handle extending out this gun has a dust cover that covers the bolt and ejection port and must be moved up and out of the way in order to gain access to the bolt and allow spent rounds to eject. I suppose in a way this could also be considered a safety (as there is no other) as with the flap down the bolt cannot be accessed and so cocked
One thing that lets this model down is its colour, it is a strange grey colour which is a colour some plastics go with age, now both the HW and the plastic are this colour, why! It’s the only plastic gun I have seen with this funny shade and it does let the model down as it detracts from an otherwise accurate piece.




All this said I can forgive a modelgun practically anything if it fires well and does not break on the first round.
First this is a Hudson modelgun which normally means a very accurate copy but a nightmare to fire (the sten apart of course) however this model is another exception and it fires well straight out of the box, well it does take one tweak first.
The rounds, why oh why do Hudson insist on the crappy inners they use in their rounds, surely by now they should realise they do not work, anyway get rid of them and replace them with MGC inners right from the start it will save you grief. The 45 rounds take 7mm caps and the mag will hold 30, now as the mag is metal it has a proper gun colour where as the rest of the gun is grey so there is a bit of contrast between the gun and the mag.
So how does it shoot, very well, be careful where you fire this gun as it chucks rounds out with a lot of force and they go for miles. The M3 also fires at a high rate which is not accurate as the real thing fired at about 500 RPM but the Hudson really lets fly and fires a mag off very quickly, this of course does help in the sound stakes which is good. Burst fire works well and considering the rate of fire is controllable but if you try to fire less than 4/5 rounds at a time then jams can occur, I put this down to the fact that it does fire fast.
The barrel is open and you get a good amount of smoke coming out of it in fact more than comes out of the breach which is another good point as it helps with the realism.
The bolt is mainly plastic but the face is metal as is the underside of the bolt which strip the rounds off the mag, meaning the bolt is not particularly heavy, however due to the high rate of fire you do get movement out of the gun not quite recoil movement but enough to help the overall effect.
As I said before the rounds stream out of the breach so watch where they go cos they have some force in them and could break stuff as well as dent walls etc but the fact that they do come out fast and furious makes this a great fun shooter and helps you ignore the weight and colour and although light seems solidly built, I have put about 8 mags through it so far and nothing seems worn, damaged or about to This is probably the cheapest modelgun machine gun that is made, under £200 even in the UK break. Cheap and cheerful it might be but it fires well looks like it will last and does not break the bank, yes it does look like a grease gun and the colour is strange but it is fun to fire so for the money well worth it in my book.




This is a vid of the grease gun, not the best i am afraid reason for that is that every time i fired the gun the rounds hit the camera and turned it off, no matter where i place the camera, as i said the rounds go everywhere and with force. So i will try to get a better vid at some stage but at least this gives an idea.
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:23 am

Post by Mark

Nice review claymore!

(I fixed the picture problem) I have a HW example of the Hudson grease gun and I am afraid to shoot it! Simply due to its seemingly brittle nature as we all know that HW modelguns break more often than ABS models.

I hope that you don't mind that I am pointing out these details on your excellent review


1. Actually, the first grease gun was the M3 version with the crank handle on the side these where produced earlier in the war and where replaced by the later version, the M3A1 near the end of the war.


2. Much like the STEN, the "grease gun" had several names that the soldiers gave it. Names, like the unflattering "enema syringe" where used as well as the Grease gun.


3. Both Hudson and MGC made all metal grease guns MGC's grease gun was the M3 version with the crank style cocking handle and Hudson's was of course, the M3A1 version.



4. As for the strange choice of the grey color, Hudson was trying to duplicate Parkerizing although, it should have more of a green tint to it to look better.


5. That rate of fire is excessive! I think that if I do shoot my M3A1, I will add weight to the bolt to try to slow it down.


6. The fascinating thing about the grease gun is that the real M3 as well as the M3A1 are selling for more money than the Thompsons when you can find them for sale.


7. The video is really cool and I can tell that the cartridges are hitting everything in the room!


8. And Oh, the "safety cover" pin is about to fall off!
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:24 am

Post by Claymore

Cheers mark, no add whatever you want my knowledge on the grease gun is slim and all you said was news to me.
Thanks for sorting the pics out and also for pointing out the cover pin i really had not noticed it.
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:25 am

Well done Claymore, another great review!

I bought one of these a little while ago based on the price £195 + Post and the video on www.modelguns.co.uk. It sounds great, makes lots of smoke and as you say, chucks out spent rounds like nothing else!

I must say though that opening the box on it's arrival had my jaw sagging with disappointment as I looked at this cheap and nasty looking piece of plastic.
First thoughts were £200 for this?

However, closer inspection and subsequent firing changed all that.

Stripping and cleaning the gun couldn't be easier. Everything that needs stripping is easily removeable. The barrel unscrews exposing the chamber and firing pin.
The metal skeleton stock pulls away from the rear of the gun and that's used to unscrew the firing chamber from the barrel. A grub screw locates the pin so dismantling is easy.

The bolt assy pulls clear of the receiver by pulling the trigger (if necessary) so cleaning and lubricating is really straight forward.

I think mine needs a little adjustment to the ejector as it tends to send spent rounds leftwards, rather than rightways out of the ejection port leading to jams.

It's a nice, simple piece of kit that works well, it makes lots of noise and smoke, sends cases flying everywhere (as Claymore's camera proves!), and it's easy to look after, what more could you want?

Keep these reviews coming Claymore!

Forgot to mention that I tried the Real Flame Caps in the M3A1 and got several sparks and minor flashes out of the barrel.
Nowhere near as good as I'd hoped for seeing "Real Flame" but I think most of us have tried them now and been disappointed.
At least it vents plenty of smoke and sparks out of the barrel.

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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:27 am

Post by Claymore

Thanks for the replies boys and please feel free to add comment to the review about the history of the gun your experiences of this model. My knowledge on this model and many others is slim and i would like to think a review would spark some extra comments just as some of you have put.

Loads of stuff from mark that i had no idea about, cerwyn, yeah real flame dissapointing or what, madmike, burp gun you know that was in my mind but i was not sure it was this gun and John, oh yeah my place has some dents hence why it was difficult to find anywhere to shoot this model (my wife has banned me from most rooms) the grease gun fired well and evry few rounds hit the bloody camera, which was a worry but more so that i could not a full mag off without having to turn the vid on again.

This gun does look and feel feeble out of the box but seems to be lasting well, now i have said that it will probably break.
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:28 am

Post by Madmike

After reading this review I knew that I had to get the Greasegun myself. Well, it arrived yesterday. I did not expect too much for the money but I must say it is a nice collectors piece and a hell of SMG modelgun for the money. I recognized that mine lacks the "SPG" stamp. And I have to say that the grey colour does not look as bad as expected. It is rather dark and resembles the grey which can be seen on some M16/AR-15 receivers. But I fear that the finish will go off easily and show scratches soon.

Most time I am dealing with modelguns these are AR-15 models. Comparing the MGC M4 and the Hudson M3A1 it is very impressive to see the differences in gun design. The M3A1 is a VERY simple design, thus easy to strip down and clean.

I forgot to order extra rounds so I have to manage with the included six. The Greasegun has a nice recoil I did not expect with such a light ABS gun.

Thank you very much, Claymore!
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:30 am

Post by Reemo

Hi Guys
Just a new string, with my 2 bits.......about the same gun.

I fired a new Hudson Grease Gun tonight for the first time - the ABS model.

Lord,......I wish all Hudson replicas fired this good.

I loaded 20 new rounds into the mag and pulled the trigger....."buuuuuuurp".

All 20 rounds fired with zero jams or malfunctions.

Extraction was CLEAN,.......looking at the bolt face, the back of the cartridges, and the feed ramp, there was NO evidence of wear.

I can't say enough about the performance of this gun. Out of the box with no "adjustments" or tweaking, it worked flawlessly. Nothing loose, nothing broken.

Also, unlike other reviewers, I had ZERO problems with the Hudson cartridges and chose NOT to use the MGC internals. I have the same good luck with the Hudson 45 ACP cartidges in my M1A1 Thompson - there I use the Hudson internals too.

I will be painting the Grease Gun this weekend - I'll post photos with the new metalized finish as soon as it is done.

Good model gun!! Hudson should release this gun again in full metal (if possible) - if it performed this well AND WAS METAL - they would sell a hundred thousand of them, - I'd buy a dozen!!
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:30 am

Post by Mark

That's great! I have been holding off firing my HW M3A1 ever since I bought it as I thought that since Hudsons record wasn't all that good as far as reliability was concerned. I too wish that the Hudson modelgun worked as well as their M3A1. In fact, I wish that all of the modelguns worked out of the box as well as they look. I will have to get it out tonite and at least look at it as it is getting too late to want to clean the gun/cartridges. Maybe I might shoot it this week end. I am sure that Hudson could sell many M3's if word got out that they worked as well as claymore's review (as well as yours) indicates. As far as an all metal M3A1 is concerned, I suppose that Hudson could cast them out of zinc alloy but, they would be possibly too heavy or?
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:32 am

Post by DOC

Yep Hudson certainly got it right with the operation of the M3A1.
The only part I have found to wear after lots of firing is the detonator chamber . When you strip this out for cleaning take a look at where tiny hex screw holds the detonator into the chamber . These can split here so get a spare from Francky .
Reemo, Hudson did make a metal one , in steel (weighed over 7lbs)
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:33 am

Post by Claymore

reemo glad to hear the gun works well, i am suprised about the hudson inners i have had nothing but trouble with those, that said they work fine in the sten which is strange but not in the thompson or the greasegun.
kickback tells me that Francky has advised taking the grub screw out of the chamber as this can cause the chamber to break, not sure how well the pin will stay in place if you do that though.
For a cheap gun it really does work well and yes pity all other hudsons do not, i also wish they would make a metal one
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:31 pm


I have been meaning to put this on the forum for some time but i was waiting until i got it firing first so i could put a video on as well. Unfortunately i have still not been able to get it firing consistently, most it has ever fired is 3 in a row but it normally jams after every round. I thought it was the det pin at first not central maybe and catching the rounds but that was looked at and it was fine, then the rounds but i could not find a problem with those although it will only feed mulberry feed or Caw 45 rounds. In the end after scratching my head for ages i believe the problem lies in the magazine (a normal cause for feeding problems) the mag i got with it i had thought was a genuine mag for the model but i think now it is a real mag with adjusted feed lips, i have now bought a real mag which fits fine the mag lips are just a little too high for the bolt to go over. I have tried the plastic model greeasegun mag and that fits but again does not feed well. So until i can get the mag completely sorted no firing and no vid. One thing i have found is it will manually cycle no problem no matter how quick you cycle the bolt it will feed and extract, i still think its a mag problem even though it does this.

Anyway to the model itself (not going to do a huge review as its been done on the plastic one).  well its  the Hudson steel greasegun, extremely rare to find and i hate to think what the cost would be if you could find one. i picked this up at a bargain price and as the pictures show in excellent condition. The steel is thick on it and its all steel apart from the barrel which is zinc (understandable) so it a good weight and strong, the bolt is zinc but unlike modern zinc bolts this one is solid and so far shows no wear or deforming and i have fired a good number of rounds through it trying to get the feed problems sorted. At some stage though i think a steel front end to the bolt would be a good idea i have had that done on a number of bolts so rather than a complete steel bolt just a front steel face has been bolted on so no wear or deformation but you keep a lighter bolt, as i think some models are a bit fragile for the force that would hit the chamber on a full steel bolt.

The Hudson Steel model is exactly the same as the Hudson plastic model in looks and dimension the only difference is the chamber on the steel version is part of the barrel so cannot be removed (it unscrews complete with the barrel), whereas on the plastic version the chamber is separate from the barrel, that is the only difference between them.

Stripping the gun is straightforward the barrel screws off first then there are 2 screws in the front of the bolt, you unscrew these and front part of the bolt comes free (and off the rest of the bolt) then the body of the bolt and the guide rods come out, reassembly is in reverse. So cleaning is simple enough, the det pin can be unscrewed out of the chamber then cleaned. Its a pity the chamber and barrel is not of the same design as the plastic as i would much prefer a separate chamber as a custom one could be built that would perhaps except more rounds than just mulberry (and mulberry no longer make rounds) and caw and maybe feed better.

Hopefully at some stage (not going to hold my breath though) i will get this firing in full auto consistently and can then update this with a report on how it fires (should have a good recoil as its a heavy bolt for zinc) and a video to go with it which i think would be a first as i dont think i have seen any video of this model.




























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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:25 am

Many thanks for this clay' Very Happy I've been waiting eagerly for this review since you told me you'd found one.
What a fabulous modelgun Exclamation Very Happy

Thinking about the feed problem you're having, what type of cartridge did Hudson use in these originally Question
Could they have been Open type Question
If so, it may be worth trying Tanio Koba GM7 .45 cartridges. As you know they're available in plastic or light ally.

Please keep us posted with progress, I for one want to see and hear this beastie firing bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:53 am

It has been a few years coming as i really did not want to put anything up until it was firing a good few rounds. I think it would of been open rounds but not sure the tanio open round system would be strong enough for this as it did not work on the plastic model and that was a lighter bolt. if the chamber was a separate piece i think a certain genius we know could probaly make a better feeding chamber but unfortunatley the chamber is part of the barrel.
what i need is a few days of free time to really play around with it and that kind of free time is just is not there at the moment, but i am determined to get it sorted, like you i want to hear this blat off at least 10 in row.
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:21 am

Hi claymore

TK's Open Cart GM7's problem with thev plastic Hudson Grease Gun was down to the Det.Pin if I recall correctly. The Det.Pin's rubber tip overheated when firing in Automatic causing caps to melt and stick to the pin.
Perhaps a full metal det.pin would work if the carts fitted Question
Another possibility could be the Easy CP system also available in 45ACP. 

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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:50 pm

There is a replica I'd like in the collection - great pictures and review - thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: Hudson's M3A1 "Grease Gun"   Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:50 pm

I had one of these metal Grease guns 'way back when' which I got from Soldiers 3 down in Croyden.   For some reason it had a small stencil on it reading '1 of 20' which I had also found on the Hudson PPSh41 and the 2 Automags from the same place.  When I asked all they could come up with was that there were (allegedly)only 20 pieces of each model allotted to the UK (and probably every other country).  Has anyone else heard of this.  See, I remember all that way back but I can't remember what I did last weekend.  Bummer!
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