Making Replacement Steel Bolts... a Discussion

Post by Reemo

Hi Claymore!
We need to get the steel bolts done for these M1A1's......hopefully somebody.

The face does deform almost immediately......I even have lost a chunk from use.

Still, I was able to get it fire a nearly full mag in one squeeze - TWICE.

I called it a night after that! I knew I was "lucky" more than anything else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

EVERYTHING has to be perfect for that to happen...

1) polish the extractor where it makes contact with the bullet rim - 1000 grit wet sand paper. SHINY and smooth.

2) use virtually new cartridges.

3) polish the back edges of the cartridges so they slip right into the bolt face.

4) grease the face of the bolt, lightly.

5) make sure the detonator is both TIGHT and clean.

6) grease the inside of the cartridges perfectly -

7) load the cartridges and seat the caps with the UPMOST care.

8 ) grease the feedlips of the mag.

9) cross fingers
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Mark

Hmm..Steel bolt faces for the Hudson M1A1 or entire steel bolts? That might have to be the question that needs to be asked on the steel bolt replacement issue. For either the Hudson or the MGC Thompson.

I have looked into the fesibility of building at least one replacement bolt for my Hudson. As my original bolt is showing signs of distress already, I feel the need is to make a new one.

I like your instructions for the successful firing of the Hudson M1A1 Reemo! I will have to try these tips on my Hudson...
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Reemo

Hi Mark!

Lets put our heads together and get this done!

Steel bolts or steel bolt face......Im still deliberating.

A bolt neck/face that threads into the main zinc bolt body might be easier than machining a whole new bolt - Im not sure.

Ever notice that steel pin sunk into the bolt face of your Hudson M1 bolt face? It puts that DEEP and huge ding in the back of your cartridges?

I'm sure it's there for two reasons..... to keep the bolt from deforming/mushrooming. Also reduces any surface "suction" and helps the cartridge come away from the bolt face easier.

Makes we wonder what would happen if a steel neck was threaded into the main bolt body.....it may destroy the bolt in no time.

So perhaps an entire steel bolt may be in order.

Your thoughts?
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Mark

Hmm,

There are four things that I can think of at the moment that make the replacement project hard:

1. Since the Hudson M1A1's bolt is cast with a hollow on its side, it makes the bolt body somewhat thin.

2. The cast zinc Hudson bolt is fairly heavy and a steel bolt body would be even heavier!

3. Machining the extractor slot might be tricky as well as the pin.

4. The bolt body is a flat piece whereas the bolt is round.

These problems can be fixed with a little time and patience. If there is someone that would be willing to make these replacement bolts via CNC or? I would like to hear from them as I would certainally make at least one prototype bolt to copy from.

The steel insert that Hudson cast into the bolt's face is meant to prevent someone from putting a true firing pin there.

If the main part of the bolt body was made out of steel (with holes to lighten it) and the bolt itself was driven and either threaded, pinned or screwed in place then it might just work right.

Now, if a small piece of steel was made to replace the Hudsons bolt face and the bolt reduced in length enough to work, then it might work a little better.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Good to see more thought being put into this!
I posted some messages awhile back in response to Doc's call for suggestions for steel replacement parts.
The MGC zinc bolt on my 1921 Thompson crumbled and deformed badly so I'd thought about a steel one.
Doc ruled out my thoughts about threading in a steel bolt into the main body as the casting would be too thin to take a thread.
A complete steel unit would be the answer but lightened to match the zinc one.
I was worried too about the possible damage a steel bolt would make to the rest of the gun and the cartrideges.
Cost is another issue,at the moment, zinc MGC bolts are just under £30 Sterling (complete assembly) I guess that's about $55 US? What would a custom made steel one cost in comparison?
Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by francky1958

i had tried so many way to fired successfully with full rounds in the magazine, but i gave up! i think reemo is so lucky guy

i'm thinking that convert the bolt from mgc thompson, i know some modification is need, this is a good idea i guess.

oh! hudson thompson's ejection port is too small, had better to shave to make wider, this is gonna help.

Post by Claymore

Reemo mate all good suggestions you have made there, i have done most of them already apart form a bit of lube on the bolt faceand mag. I polished the bolt up and filed down some of the inner rim of the bolt face as the new bolt face was to small to except the rim of the round, after all this the gun worked great for about 2 mags the the bolt started to get mashed and then the jams happened. Francky's suggestion on the ejection port being too small is an area i have given no thought to but i will go an check now and see about opening it up a bit.

For me a think a complete new steel bolt is the way to go, as to cost well new bolts for the hudson are not cheap now and dont last long so if i had to pay 4 or 5 times the cost for a steel one i would as it would never need replacing and i m on my 4th hudson bolt allready.

There was a guy i was in contact with who was looking at making a metal bolt for the hudson, i will recontact him and see if he has made progress or given up.

Post by Reemo

Hi Guys.

A COMPLETE new bolt is the only way to go - a pieced together hybrid seems to be out.

So I think we have decided that portion.

Steel may not be the only option - perhaps a harder CNC aluminum would suffice. ANYTHING would be better than the horrible and porous zinc that Hudson casts.

Making it light enough is no problem......we have the blind side milled out like the factory did. Holes can be added if it is still too heavy, but all will have to be CNC done.

So we need to get together with a good machinist who can offer options as to metal choice and to do the actual milling.

Guys, they are machining airsoft gearboxes now (!!) with all the complex measurements and gear placement issues - so, a block of metal with a round neck sticking out at one end is NOOOOOO problem.

Last thoughts to some comments - I have also considered what a steel bolt will do to a zinc sear. As long as the weight is in the ballpark, I predict no issues.

As for using/modifying an MGC bolt, I cant see it. They are just TOO completely different setups.

Lets find a qualified machinist - anybody?

PS.
What is the cost of a Hudson Bolt? I have never priced one.

~
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Mark

A complete all steel bolt is required I think in order to make the replacement bolt feasible at this point. If the Hudson's zinc bolt was solid, then a steel shaft could have been subsituted. There is a chance that a bolt can be made in a different fashion than what we are thinking at this moment...

As far as the zinc sear/steel bolt is concerned, I have a steel bolt in my MGC Sterling and it has not damaged the sear yet. I have fired many caps through it in both full and semi.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Claymore

my last bolt for the hudson complete with extractor and spring was $93 and i have had 4 so far and now need another one so it aint cheap i would rather of spent 4 bolts worth on 1 steel bolt.

Post by Reemo

claymore wrote:

my last bolt for the hudson complete with extractor and spring was $93 and i have had 4 so far and now need another one so it aint cheap i would rather of spent 4 bolts worth on 1 steel bolt.

No.......forget that.
Steel bolt here we come.
Lets get this done guys.
Who has a pristine Hudson bolt to copy from? Anybody?
If not lets collectively buy one. (To copy from)
Also, would the person who is manufacturing the STEN's be the guy who will make this?

~

Post by Claymore
should be able to work from an old bolt i would of thought Reemo as long as we point out the inner rim, if not i have another bolt on order which i would be happy to donate if we can find someone to make the steel bolt.
Ok the guy making the sten's is going to have a look at custom parts (got to go through MGC though) he is going to look at my sterling bolt so lets see what comes back from that first and then we can see if he will do the hudson.

There is a guy in the states who i had contact with who was looking at making steel bolts for the thompson i will email and see whats happening

Post by Reemo

Will do!

And a sterling bolt is something I would want as well - just a sidenote!

REEMO
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Good idea, I was thinking of a steel replacement for the MGC Thompson itself, not modifying one to fit the Hudson... sorry for any confusion there.
Might well be worth asking Doc, he designed the steel Sten so must be able to turn his hand to CAD drawings.
He had been asking for suggestions for replacement parts in steel a little while back

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Mark

Reemo wrote:

Will do!
And a sterling bolt is something I would want as well - just a sidenote!
REEMO

You mean like this?

I had to remove a lot of material to lighten the bolt to match the original MGC's weight.

As you can see, the bolt, being made out of carbon steel, rusts fairly quickly even when cleaned immediately after firing.

I will make a new one out of stainless steel and see just how long it takes to rust. It was a challenging job to make these beasty's as my lathes are under-powered at best.

Post by Reemo

Beautiful job Mark!!!

Will you make more than a couple?

Id pay dearly for one of your bolts
_________________
"This is your life......and its ending one minute at a time."

Post by Mark

I would make far more than a couple more!

But, since both of my available lathes are both under-powered it takes a long time to turn them out. As I can only take a .005 thousandth cut each time or my drive belt slips! Needless to say, it takes a long time to turn out these bolts! Not to mention the milling work for the feed lips,extractor etc.

If I was to get the lathe that I need, I could turn them out faster but, that is not in my near future...

If I did make some more, I would have to make claymore one first! As he has been waiting for one for a long time.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Claymore

It may take a long time to make Mark but that bolt looks great, just wish i had the skill and machinery to make my own