MP40 MGC68

Hello,

First of all, please excuse my bad englisch.
We found a MP40 MGC68 on the attic of our grandfathers house after he died. As I was looking around online to find something out about this gun, I noticed your forum.

I read a whole lot the last hours and I would like to ask some questions.

Many of you write that on your Modelgun is written Made in Japan. On ours it is only Japan ( without Made). Why is it different?

Is it normal that some parts, little piece on the front, the sides of the gripp and the upper sides of the gun are out of plastic- the rest seams to be out of steal.

Maybe someone can tell me some more about this gun and what I have to take care of when I want to sell it.

Here are some photos.

















Thanks a lot for your help.

Hello Schantistar,

Welcome to the forum :-) Do not worry about English, there are many people from all over world.
Your English is very good, I did not have any problem understanding you :-)

There were a lot slightly different versions of MP40 produced by MGC. Usually we can only say something is early or late production, as MGC changed details many times. I am not sure about exact dates, but the last production dates were around 1972-75 (?). Later Japanese law changed and it was not legal to make modelguns from steel.

Schantistar wrote:

Many of you write that on your Modelgun is written Made in Japan. On ours it is only Japan ( without Made). Why is it different?
Is it normal that some parts, little piece on the front, the sides of the gripp and the upper sides of the gun are out of plastic- the rest seams to be out of steal.

Earlier versions of MGC MP40 had "Made in Japan", later only "Japan". This means that yours is from a later production.
Sides of grip are definitely plastic. On real MP40 they were made from bakelit, which is kind of plastic.

For more information you are definitely in right place, there are many owners of MP40 who can share knowledge.

If you decide to sell it, you can count on people in this forum.

Hi again Schantistar,

Here's a couple of photos of a cap firing model's Bolt Face. Does yours look like this

And here's the Detonator Pin I mentioned...


I hope these help some

Hello Cerwyn and Schmootik and thanks for your quick response.

Even though some dream of finding one on the attic, we were quite shocked.

My normal Conversation English is not bad, but detailed gun english is hard for me to understand and to translate but I do my best.

If I translate you right, the pin is this thing on the top of the barrel which you can pull back if you want to fire, is that right? If yes... it works, you can pull it back- it stays in place or you can put it up into a kind of whole in the barrel. And you can pull the trigger, then this thing flips back to the front and it makes a loud click. Excuse my very weird english

I am not really sure if it has a serial number, couldn't find one yet, maybe I am too stupid- or just a female with a gun which I guess means the same Is the muzzle the thing which is on the fourth picture lieing in the front ( this twisted off thing, which normally belongs to the front of the gun) ?

As I looked on the photos cerwyn posted, I am not sure that there is such a pin... is it possible that it is inside? I have no idea how to take it apart without making too much damage Actually the front piece ( this twisted off thing on the fourth picture )of this modelgun seems to be closed ( can't look through it).
Which parts of the gun are shown on the first two picutres? You posted cerwyn?



Is it made out of steal or out of casting? It seams to be made out of both... is that right?

Hope you are able to understand what I wrote.

Thanks a lot again

No worry about naming parts of guns, it is confusing for me in my own language, just like in English.

Let's clarify naming a bit :-)

Whole front part that you can unscrew is "muzzle". Inside it has a barrel, and inside barrel, near back (where it joins with other part of gun), there could be "detonator pin" that is used for firing caps (to make sound/smoke, but not shoot anything). On your last photo there does not seem to be any pin inside, so question was if this pin (it looks like on Cerwyn photo) was maybe stored with replica, just separately.

Main part of the replica is called "receiver". Receiver can further disassembled in two parts: upper and lower receiver. Upper is a tube with moving "bolt" inside. There is a small handle poking out of hole in receiver, that you can pull back. It should lock, as you describe, and go forward when you pull trigger. Your replica seems to work correctly :-) "Lower receiver" contains trigger mechanism, pistol grip and other parts under upper receiver.

Questions that Cerwyn asked were trying to find out if you have dummy, or cap firing version. Dummy does not have "detonator pin" inside barrel, and it also does not have a "bolt" face as in photo he posted, but different. Please note that on Cerwyn photo bolt has been removed from receiver.
When you pull bolt handle just a bit to the back, you can see face (front part) of the bolt through opening.

Serial number on muzzle can be seen here:


This model is made mainly of steel. This is quite rare, because after law in Japan changed, all new models could only be cast from weak metal. There is not many steel models surviving to modern times, your MGC MP40 is one of these.

You are communicating very well :-)

It's my pleasure to try to help Schantistar, and yes indeed, your English is very good. I can understand you perfectly.

The barrel itself will be a Zinc Alloy casting, not steel like the rest of the gun.

The pin you've described in your post above is the Charging or Cocking Handle. This is also a Zinc casting, made as one piece with the bolt and sticks out of the gun's left side as you hold it.



Pulling this handle back draws the bolt back and it stops at the rear "cocked" ready to fire. As you pull the trigger, the bolt moves forwards at speed.

The Detonator Pin is necessary with cap firing modelguns. It sits in the breach pointing back towards the bolt...

this photo shows a Plugged version, but this is where the Detonator Pin would be...




The pin would be seen pointing towards you here, in the breach, where the bullet would be fed into to fire





The serial number will be stamped on the other side to that shown in this photo...







The plastic Bar under the barrel is secured by that pin you can see here, pushed through the metal casting ... it's just in front of the plastic bar.

Turn the gun over, you'll see the number stamped there... I've photos of practically every other part of the model, but not a Serial Number



The muzzle is the very end of the barrel, where the bullet would leave the gun if it was real.

The 4th picture I posted in my first reply shows the whole Barrel, Muzzle, Front Sight and the large nut you unscrew to remove the whole assembly from the gun.



Your photos show the barrel is open, that is you can see through it. If you look at the other piece, the main part of the gun, the Detonator Pin would sit there, and is removable. If you've nothing there, but you can see through into the gun, you would be able to buy a new Pin.



If this piece is blocked however, like this







and this plug does not come out easily, you've most likely got a non-firing model.





The first two photos are of the Bolt. This is the piece that moves backwards and forwards inside the gun when you pull that handle back, and squeeze the trigger... here's another:

Hi again and you are really great helping me so kind.

There is no detonator pin.. maybe it got lost. I am trying to make some inside photos but I have to recharge the akku of my cam for some minutes. Is it possible to take it appart? My bf tried to take it appart but couldn't get the receiver parts apart and he was afraid of damaging it. Maybe you could tell us in how many parts it can be taken apart. The receiver was put into two parts, but he couldn't get the upper thing off. Even though he was in the german army for a long time, he, as I, have no clue of modelguns... but he is trying again now, since he just came home Wish us luck

Taking the model apart is just as described in this article... although the article shows another Japanese makers model, Marushin, and this one is plastic, the method is the same...

https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/marushin-mp40-f16/marushin-mp40-basic-strip-down-cleaning-guide-t1157.htm

Please Note... Ignore Steps 2 and 3 ... the Marushin model has a quite different type of Detonator Pin

It is very important to pull and twist the wheel shown in Step 4 and squeeze and hold the trigger as you take Step 5

Good Luck, let us know how you get on please

Ok Photos are made... it shows the gun from the front when the muzzle is off.

Hi And welcome to the forum .

This should help with the names of the parts

Dies sollte helfen, mit den Namen der Teile






Die MGC primären Teile Demontage

Hi Schantistar,

Looking at your photos, I think it's almost certain you have a cap firing version of MGCs MP40.
The Detonator Pin would be sitting between the muzzle assembly and the rest of the gun.
It's possible it's been lost somewhere during the last 30 or so years since the model was made.
That is no real problem, new detonator pins can be bought.

Final comnfirmation that it's a firing model will be by looking at the front of the bolt. If it looks like the one in the photos I showed you, it's a firing model, if there's a steep angle cut accross it, it'll be one for display only.

You asked about what to do and look for if you decided to sell it. Your model appears to be complete apart from the Detonator Pin, as the main part of the gun is made of steel, check for rust, the cleaner and free of rust it is, the better.
Check for cracks in the castings... the barrel is cast, the bolt is cast also. Check it for cracks, chips, wear and broken pieces knocked off.

Obviously the less wear there is, the better it'll be.

Did you manage to take it apart to look inside

Actually looking at the two holes drilled in the front of the receiver ( Hülse ) and the long cut underneath I would say this is a non firing model ...the cut was to weaken the receiver tube and the holes do indeed run to the inside of the chamber so any venting smoke would emit from here ...I`d take a guess that the bolt (schlagbolzen ) has a 45% cut face too.

DOC

DOC wrote:

Actually looking at the two holes drilled in the front of the receiver ( Hülse ) and the long cut underneath I would say this is a non firing model ...the cut was to weaken the receiver tube and the holes do indeed run to the inside of the chamber so any venting smoke would emit from here ...I`d take a guess that the bolt (schlagbolzen ) has a 45% cut face too.

DOC

Thanks very much Doc, I was hoping you'd advise on this one

As a matter of interest, if a replacement bolt and det. pin were sourced, would it be possible to close the cut and holes in the receiver and convert this model to a cap firer

Hello and good morning,

thanks a lot for your help again and for the pictures explaining the gun and using the german words

We were wondering about the bolt too, I am not sure, but I don't think that it looks like that in your pictures cerwyn. We tried to take it apart, but somehow we still can't get the upper and lower piece apart, because there is some kind of spring inbetween. We were able to lift the front but the back seems to be hooked to this spring inside.

It seems like there is no rost or broken things, the tubes which lead to the schoulder piece have some dots on it, but doesn't really look like rost.

Even though no one over here in Germany could explain and answer questions about this modelgun, since I put it online in an auction yesterday somehow everyone wants to have it. lol A guy already offered 500 € buy it now price- but since it is an auction he will have to wait till it ends in 2 weeks and bid. I didn't write too much into the auction text, only what is written on the modelgun, and some of the infos you guys gave me. I wrote nothing about the things we/I am not sure about (firing and bolt) and made the offer to the bidders to look at it face to face, or rather face to gun. I think that is the best way.

My mailbox already got fludded with questions, since you gave me so great information I was able to answer most of it...

Didn't know that it is worth that much, but already read somewhere here in the forum that something is worth what someone wants to pay for it, if I remember right Doc said that.

Good morning Schantistar,

I'm really glad that we've been able to help you It's a pleasure to do so.

When taking the 2 recievers apart, it is important to remember to follow each step.

The wheel under the lower reciever must be pulled out a little, it is held by a spring and can be a little stiff. Pull it and twist it around until it locks in the pulled out position.

Next squeeze and hold the trigger.

With your other hand, hold the front of the upper reciever around the place where the magazine goes in is best, and firmly twist the upper part around about 30 degrees. The sights for aiming on top of the reciever will turn with the reciever until they touch (or almost touch) the plastic side cover on the right side of the gun as you hold it.

This twist and turn allows the lock at the back of the gun to release and seperate the 2 halves.

This can be tight sometimes and my take a bit of effort to achieve. If the gun hasn't been taken apart for a few years, it may have tightened up a little.

The spring holding the 2 recievers together is, I think, the metal tube that is attached to the bolt. This has a hole at the rear end which slips over a peg in the very back of the gun.
This may be sticking if it hasn't been taken apart for a long time.
A good strong pull after you twist and turn the upper reciever should do the trick. Remember to keep the trigger squeezed when you do this.

If the front of your bolt does not look like the one in the photo, it is probably one that has been ground or cut at a 45deg angle to make it a Non-Firing model.

As for value, Doc is right, things are worth what people are prepared to pay for them. The older and rarer an item is, the more desireable it is, so prices can go up and up.

MGC MP40s, are desireable modelguns. They have not been produced for almost 35 years by now.
500 Euros is a good starting price, no doubts there. I've seen the Cap Firing Models sell privately for between £400 and £500 GBPounds, some dealers charge £600 - £800 GBPounds for cap firers.
Examples that are still in original boxes, totally original, never fired, with instructions and everything as it left the factory can sell for much more than that IF someone is prepared to pay that much.

Let your Auction run for the 2 weeks, you should reasonably expect 500 Euros for it

If you need any more help, please feel free to ask, we are happy to help you any way we can.

Kind Regards

I nearly forgot to ask, may I please copy your photographs and post them in our MGC MP40 Photo Gallery with our others

Thank you,

Cerwyn wrote:

Thanks very much Doc, I was hoping you'd advise on this one

As a matter of interest, if a replacement bolt and det. pin were sourced, would it be possible to close the cut and holes in the receiver and convert this model to a cap firer

you could probably tap threads into the drilled holes , fit a bolt and cut the head of level with the tube to make a gas tight fix , ( or find someone with a replacement chamber )the long cut in the tube you may be able to leave as there isnt that much pressure although if you were skillful with welding you could add a small strip of steel.

Changing the chambers is a bit of an involved job by the way.

DOC

Thanks Doc, always useful to know if it's possible to restore one like this into a cap firing model.

I wish I'd found a nice MGC MP40 in my attic

Hello thanks again,

just came back from a mountainbike trip .... I am exhausted We will try to take it apart later, but first we have to pick up our dogs ... and get something to eat

For sure you can take the photos, if you wish I can make some more from each side, closeups etc (if wanted).

More later, got to go

Thank you Schantistar, I'll copy and paste your photos over today then,

If you have time, a few more photos would be very gratefully recieved, thank you. If, as we now think, your bolt has a 45 deg angle cut into its face, a photo of that would be good as I don't think I've seen one here yet

The MP40 is a beautiful gun, any photographs you can manage to take will be great.

Thanks again,

Here you go C man

cut bolt








and one shot of the very early type MGC bolt with twin feed lips exactly like the original weapon



use wherever you like mate

DOC