OK voters, what would YOU do to reduce gun crime?

Post by Doc

mostly aimed at UK people as :
1. its where I live
2. it seems relatively newish in the UK and this means it may be able to be halted.

still more than interested to hear views from you other people across the globe on your countries responses to gun crime and what you`d like to see.

Me ?......

I`d start with min 5 years for carrying a firearm (real one) and then one extra year guaranteed for every piece of live ammo you have with you (double if you fired it)
simple .... carry a machine gun and unload on someone you will go away for a proper amount of time ...carry an unloaded pistol and you may get to experience the PS 4
for carrying a replica (in a threatening manner) Id make it the possibility of 5 years .

But Id also make the offence of carrying a knife/screwdriver greater than carrying a replica .

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Phobus

I am curious as to how these guns are getting in the Country ?

I mean we in the UK have some of the most restrictive guns laws in the world , right ? It is only on here that I learned there are countries with STRICTER laws !! I would never have believed it otherwise .

We have had these laws for DECADES so where the heck do these live firearms come from ?

I know about the Brocock conversions ( heard different tales about how resistant they are to live rds - ok the arminius ones can but the likes of the me 38 / magnum were not intended to withstand a live rd pressures ...correct ? )

Also the reactivated deacs ?? Seems to me new spec would be easier to start again from scratch than try to breath life into one of those ..

So someone muist be importing them ? Many years ago a Squaddie mate of mine told me that he had heard of blokes in his regiment that brought pistols in from Europe - little compact .22 or .25s that would fit inside the plastics of an SLR

I guess they are coming in from Eastern Europe ? Pistol ammo can still be had legit, in the UK for carbines and the like so unscrupulous people could access it that way , but I doubt they would . More likely it has come in via the same route as the weapon .

I am not a naive person and at 46 years old don,t shock easily and I used to frequent some pretty rough drinking places a few years ago , but I can honestly say I have NEVER seen a firearm or heard of them being passed around ( and these places would intimidate the SOPRANOS ) so maybe it is mostly an ethnic thing or gang / youth related ?

You here about kids being able to access a gun within an hour but I wonder how much truth there is in that , and how many of these guns are REAL firearms ?

Carl.
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Marmite enthusiast

Post by shazhib

Phobus,

I heard those Yakuza (mobsters) get Chinese copy of Tokarev and Makarov by boat. As you and I are living in the coutry with islandinc region, a port or ocean access is always be a channel to get those guns. I don't think there is a guy try to bring those guns by air. No matter how you have a strict law, you cannot monitor every single coast line.

Much the same as Drug smuggling I suppose, the UK's shores have been smugglers' haven since the 1600's haven't they?

If hardcore drugs can be flooded in, are real guns coming in with them?

Proper an appropriate punishment should be dished out to anyone stupid enough to even wave a gun(real or otherwise) about in the street, let alone attempt to threaten, frighten, or shoot somebody.
If the idiots treat the toy, replica, or real steel as a real steel then they either deserve shooting or locking up for a long long time. Not let out in 5 yrs for good behaviour and all that crap.

And let's see Common Sense again please? Let's not have Policemen carrying off young mums' to the Police Station with their toddling little children because the kids had a holster and cowboy gun in the street. Yes, this has happened, kids' cap guns confiscated, kids and young mum terrified and threatened with prosecution after several hours in the cells...

Licenses to own real firearms and shotguns are already here. That only controls the guns owned by law abiding folks. The thugs in the streets won't bother with licences will they? Course not.

Maybe licences to buy and own replicas might be an answer if it means we can continue to buy them as we wish. Better maybe to have my name on Police records as a replica owner than to be banned outright of buying one at all.

But woe betide anyone that uses a toy or replica in a threatening manner, or shoots anyone with a bullet or pellet. Harsh penalties are needed, make the deterrent a real deterrent, not something these thugs will laugh at.

If they want to shoot people, let them be shot a few times with frozen Paintballs, or better still, and the more I think of it, the better it sounds, bring back National Service.
They want to F**k about with guns do they? Let them do so with a RSM in charge. "Bad Lads' Army" changed more than a few scumbags into half decent blokes, it works, bring it back to teach discipline and morals.

Punish the law breakers, not take the easy way out and punish and restrict the law abiding.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by jim

Hi,

Since Shazhib san raised the topic of smuggling Chinese firearms I might bring out something...

We in HK the general public suffered from the "unlimited" stream of smuggled Chinese-made Type 54 (Chinese Tokarev), Type 59 (Chinese Makarov), Type 56 (Chinese AK47 or 47s) as well as hand grenades used in the flood of bank/jewellery shop robberies during the early~mid 1990s (before the Handover apparently)...it was said the black market price for a live AK cost ~HKD$500/pc (~GBP 60) & a pistol ~HKD$1000!(the pistol cost more because it's concealable and therefore more flexible during robberies)

Keep in mind that the ammo (7.62mm as well as the 9X18mm Makarov) cost GBP 6/pc ...

Nobody knew at that time if the Chinese Communist reintroduce the death penalty after the Handover so everybody made the most of it...and after the Handover everything died down and we can now walk safely in the streets - so maybe Communism (namely) is the solution to reduce gun crimes... ?

Maybe John can back up / correct my claim...

By the way the death penalty still haven't been imposed in HK so this might not be the solution...but if it is introduced then more people might get killed since killing 1 & killing 100 means the same...

In short - education is the only solution & I've to admit that relatively "homogeneous" countries (e.g. Japan, Scandinavian countries) tend to have much less gun crimes - I'm only referring to the developed nations above - and unfortunately multicultural societies (such as the UK, US, Australia) the situations are very serious (no kidding it is catching up on the "down under" ...)

Post by John

Hi,

I have been away from posting in the Forum for quite a while as there are not many topics recently I could contribute. However, after reading Jim's one, I come back.

HK is a wonderful place, small but very populated. Mixture of East & West.
Crime rate is relatively low and gun related crime rate is even very low in recent years. Real gun control is very tight. Ordinary people are almost impossible to own a real gun, unless joining the authorised Gun Club but the membership fee is very high. But then it is still not allowed to store real guns & ammo at home even you got the licence.
And as Jim said, even the smuggling of black market guns from China or nearby regions is easy (imagine how busy the ports (air, sea, land) are here & over hundred of thousands of people crossing the border daily!), crimes involving real guns are surprsingly very low. I think most people (including myself) here are used to & welcome the very strict real gun control. There should not be any argument or dispute on this matter. There is just no need for any one to own a real gun at home!

On the other hand, the toy gun control (including the airsoft & modelgun, of course) is very loose here, probably the most free place in the world!
The only restriction is the cap is not allowed & airsoft cannot be over 2J. Apart from that, you can buy & own any sort of toy guns regardless its material & color, no orange muzzle. Even Wa Shan (Made in Taiwan) full metal is now banned to sell in Taiwan, but it is freely available here. Mail orders shops are famous and basically the Custom won't seize the toy guns for in & out mailing (of course they must know how to tell toy guns from real guns!).

Strangely, even with such very loose control in toy guns (or replica), most people here have no concern with it. Even there are some rare instances that some naughty ones shoot the passing-by with BB & caught, no one brings out the control of toy guns. I also remember that there are cases that the toy guns were used in some robbery before, again no one brings out the control of toy guns. No politician or media would like to go into this topic.

Probably one of the reasons for this is the overall crime rate relating to gun (real or not) is so low that there are not enough motive or justification to go into a new topic (control of sale & ownership of toy guns). Moreover, there are already too many topics to argue (politics, polution, education, etc) or discuss (pay rise, money making)

And the existing legislation in firearm control already covers the mis-use of toy gun (replica). e.g. display of such in public area, modification, etc.

Lastly, I think most of the toy gun owners (including the war gamers & modelgun collectors like me ) here are very responisble & well behaved & seldom caused much trouble.

Post by 8ace

I think there are a couple of different issues.

1: Major gun crime (murder, robbery)

2: Minor gun crime (kids messing about on street corners with air pistols)

I don’t think that an increase in penalties will affect the first one (but you do have to have a realistic deterrent), what is the best way to tackle the second one not sure

People will still try to take other peoples property and lives with whatever implement is available; banning guns from society (handguns, shotguns and replicas) will never stop it.

The media must take an amount of reasonability with the way they report the gun crime figures, which make the general public feel that it is increasing.

8ace

Post by Spencerman

Ok, here is what I think....

I find it strange that countries like Canada have such low gun crime rates when gun ownership is fine, and it is only just across the water from the US, where gun crime is rife. Here is what I think. When I was in Canada, I was quite surprised to see that people were so polite. If I were to thank someone for something (which I do), then they would often come back with a reply such as 'You're Welcome'. It was usually a very scincere reply. They were nice, very nice people.

I believe in gun licencing. Bring back the old days, where if you wanted a gun you had to justify why in order to get a licence, and then be subject to a police check every year. That is fine. If you are a law abiding person then what is the problem? Clarify the reasonable force self defense law, as I personally feel that if someone breaks into my house then for me to shoot them six times with a .44magnum and then reload and shoot them six more times is perfectly reasonable. Others my disagree. Clarify it and there will be no problem. The main thing though, would be to provide proper penalties for owning one illegally. As in the movie Judge Dredd, when he is dishing out penalties at the start during the block war, he read out various charges, and resisting arrest was 20 years! I am a firm believer that if the crime is serious then the sentance should relect that crime. I also feel that people that go out with knives and screwdrivers should be charged equally as those with firearms, as the intent is probably the same, unless you are an electrician or something!

I firmly dont belive in banning anything, as as soon as you do you loose all control over it. Just for example, I had a copy of Clockwork Orange on video about 20 years ago.
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