Gun mechanism design - are there any books on that?

Folks,

I am still trying to understand different designs of self-loading systems used in guns.
Usual pistol/SMG/rifle descriptions say things like "locked-breech" or "roller-lock" or "rotating bolt".

Now, I do understand that such information can be seen as "dangerous" for propagation (as in "how-to-make-gun-at-home"), which would explain why there doesn't seem to be books or publications about this subject. The only one I've found so far is " Full Circle - A Treatise on Roller Locking" published by Collector Grade Publications:
http://www.collectorgrade.com/bookshelf8.html

Anyway I'll ask - do you know other such books?

Hi smootik

I typed "Firearm Design" into Amazon.com and found several books that might help you

Thank you Cerwyn!

It seems that finding books was a matter of correct search words, and you got them right.
I'm sorted out :-)

After some browsing and reviewing of various books, here's what I found so far.
(I did not have chance to check out book on roller-lockin mentioned earlier)

1) "How to disassemble" / "Exploded diagrams"
These are books that concentrate on maintenance tasks. They show steps for disassembly, cleaning, putting it back together. Such books are more like user manuals written in American style than information about how the firearms actually work. Sample:

Quote :

Government Safety Warnings:

WARNING

Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas,
cleaning firearms, or handling ammunition may
result in exposures to lead and other substances
known to the State of California to cause birth
defects, reproductive harm, and other serious
physical injury. Have adequate ventilation at all
times. Wash hands thoroughly after exposure.

2) "Gunsmithing"
These are more about troubleshooting and fixing problems, but once again - there is not much information or theory how the system actually works. I would say that such books are rather tool- and process- oriented (how to fabricate/repair given piece).

3) "How to build a machine pistol"
There is a few books (check Bill Holmes, Gerard Metral and Philip Luty) that give workprints and explain how to build a machine pistol in your "garage". Assuming that the garage is full of machinery and you are full of workshop experience, of course. Goal of these books is just construction of a firearm, without full thought process on how it was designed or other such details. These books are a bit borderline perhaps, depending how your governement looks at the issue. To better understand what I mean by such books being "borderline", please take a look at website of one of the authors and read story how Mr Luty was recently arrested for "MAKING A RECORD OF INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST TERRORISTS"
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/


Restricting firearms goes in pair with restricting information about firearm design, and I do not think that one would find a book on subject outside of military universities and military-related research groups.

Edit: for pure recoil theory there is this one:
http://www.archive.org/details/theorydesignofre00unitiala

Brief descriptions of how blowback and other mechanisms work in pistols:
http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-November99.html

For most people the thought of detailed firearm books is crazy so publishers wont back them as they won’t make money but there is a huge amount of information on all types of breech systems available on the internet which doesn't mean we will all be out making them

Having said that the Sten gun book I’ve got by Peter Laidler has information on it's simple blowback system as well as a wealth of all Sten gun related info (but for £40 it should ) but not only is it a great reference guide it’s also a good read

So books might not be the best source of information

8ace

Yup, books are dangerous, for writers (see point 3 in previous post) and for readers:
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2010/tle579-20100718-07.html

I'll try to see if one of military bookshops has the Sten book to take a look - they import CGP volumes, and sometimes have them available for browsing.

Hi Smootik.

This might help interested members: ''

“The Textbook of Automatic Pistols” by R.K. Wilson & Ian V. Hogg.
Published in 1975 (SBN No.:85368 490 1) by Arms & Armour Press, London.
(Also SBN No.: 85368 480 4)



This classic book by Colonel Robert Kenneth Wilson (Royal Artillery) was first published in the USA in 1943 quickly sold out as it eclipsed all previous works on the subject. It became known in England solely by its reputation and high price as a rare book.

Republished in 1975 with additional information by Ian Hogg, which included data on WW2 and post war light automatics, including the MP40.

It starts with chapters on the historical development of the (semi-) automatic pistol in general and then goes to describe the mechanisms of individual weapons in depth.

Wilson uses verbal descriptions rather than pictures, but if you are familiar with basic modelgun operation, the English isn't too hard to follow! (I hope). ''
Highly recommended. ''
Kiwigunner

That's a nice tip! thank you :-D

Now it's just a matter of finding a place that will sell and ship it internationally.

I've used these guys

http://www.naval-military-press.com/

and these

http://www.skennerton.com/index.html

And of course ebay

And there's 3 International Sellers on this Amazon.com page:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0006S12AS/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&qid=1294537842&sr=1-1-fkmr0&condition=all

Happy Hunting!

Kiwigunner

smootik wrote:

That's a nice tip! thank you :-D

Now it's just a matter of finding a place that will sell and ship it internationally.

Amazon.com have copies for sale, they'll usually ship internationally

Thanks Cerwyn. Amazon themselves do ship internationally, but these guys are external sellers = Amazon Marketplace. There is a restriction to about 20-30 countries that are covered by "international" shipping in Amazon Marketplace system. Poland is not among these.

In any case I will try contacting sellers listed to see if they would ship it outside of Amazon process.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=537734

Quote :

Placing Orders from Outside the United States

Marketplace orders can only be placed from international locations if the buyer is in a supported country (see the list below). Standard International shipping is the only shipping option available for Marketplace orders fulfilled by Amazon.com.
Supported Countries
* Australia
* Belgium
* Brazil
* Canada
* Denmark
* Finland
* France
* Germany
* Hong Kong
* Iceland
* Ireland
* Italy
* Japan
* Republic of Korea
* Mexico
* Netherlands
* New Zealand
* Norway
* Portugal
* South Africa
* Spain
* Sweden
* Switzerland
* United Kingdom (England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales)
* United States (including U.S. protectorates)

Hi smootik,

At present, there are 2 copies on e-Bay.com, both offering international shipping.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Textbook+of+automatic+pistols+&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Barnes&Noble also offer 2, although more expensive,

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Textbook-of-Automatic-Pistols/Wilson/p/9780935632897

Ordered one from Johnson's Used Books, they are on ebay too. Bookstore owner was very nice and communicative - he had no problems to send internationally, knew shipping costs right away.
http://www.abebooks.com/johnsons-used-books-birmingham-al-u.s.a/6380/sf

Now that loooong wait until book arrives...

Book arrived here in just one week
I only had time for a brief overview - see my first impressions below. I will probably post a few sample pages so you can see type of descriptions and language used in this book.

Edition that I got is a reprint of 1943 original one - it never got updated by the original author. It was speculated that he died in the war.

Reprint is leather-bound, printed on quality paper, with gold-gilded ("22-karat gold") page sides, and silk-covered insides of cover. Very satisfying from an object point of view
I did not search for this edition specifically, and from content point of view any other would be just as good.

Contents:
3......I Historical survey: the development of the automatic principle
27....II Principles of operation
52....III Early self-loading pistols
98....IV Mauser and Mauser-type pistols
132...V Military self-loading pistols (I)
157...VI Military self-loading pistols (II)
185...VII The U.S. Army trials of 1907 and the U.S. Army model Colt
197...VIII Intermediate and police self-loading pistols
203...IX Some pocket self-loading pistols: calibre .380
207...X Automatic pistol ammunition and ballistics
267...XI Pistol-cartridge automatics: sub-machine guns and light automatics for low-power ammunition
307...XII Light automatics: a short outline of development
337...indexes

There is also 55 illustrations, showing mainly side-views of pistols, a few cut-outs diagrams, and ammo types.

Goal of the writer was to "give a complete account of all weapons that employed the automatic principle for repetitive fire", not achieved due to difficulty of getting samples. Book was interrupted due to outbreak of war, with the last pistols made around 1935. Preface promised to continue work after the war describing pistols from 1936 onwards, but it did not happen.

Book starts with bits of history (much more recent when seen from 1940s than from now), followed by explaining principles of automatic action. There is practically no illustrations, making description difficult to follow for me - I seriously lack vocabulary there. Obtaining drawings from other sources, or investigating a particular model should help a bit. Keep in mind that these are old designs (best-known are Colt 1911, Luger P08, Mauser 1896, most of the others are more obscure and not available as models), yet general principles for automatics are still the same.

Next chapters cover many types of pistols available at the time, describing variants from a collector's point of view (I think), and also giving some details of operations, if found interesting.

There is also a large section on ammunition, explaining characteristics of various rounds.

Last sections cover early sub-machine guns, including Thompson. There is also an overview of how these were supposed to be tactically used in military and by police, changing field.

EDIT: I mixed up author with publisher - removed wrong data
Following information is about book publisher, not author:

I found photos by his grand-granddaughter, and information that in 1945 he bought a plantation and lived there probably until 1970s, after donating most of the terrain to the state.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artsyann/sets/72157614160456610/
http://thomasgsamworth.blogspot.com/
http://south-carolina-plantations.com/georgetown/dirleton.html

Glad you got it ok, Smootik. ''
That didn't take long.

Enjoy your copy - and as I said, the English is a bit hard to understand - but if you have a modelgun you can strip down while you read his English, then that might be helpful to explain what he means! ''

My edition was carried on by Ian V. Hogg, a prolific firearms author, and is essentially the same as yours, but with the correction of typographical errors, and the addition of 30 years of information after WW2 to bring it up to date at the time of publication -1975!

Notes were inserted at the end of some chapters in order to expand on or to correct information that Wilson's text was based on in 1934.

So it has these extra chapters: ''

338 Automatic Pistols since 1934, by Ian V. Hogg
349 Sub-machine pistols since 1934, by Ian V. Hogg
362 Appendix: Chapter Notes, by Ian V. Hogg
367 Index

Here we are in 2011 - 36 years further on, and no one seems to have written a comparable book since!
Wilson did a great job, his first edition sold out! Hogg added 30 years of updates.
We need someone to add updates from 1975 to the present time! ''

Does anyone know of such a book? They say, knowledge is POWER......so it would not surprise me if this book has NOT been reprinted or updated!??? ''

Kiwigunner

Something like these could be of interest...

Listed Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Combat-Pistols-Development-Semi-automatic/dp/1861268947/ref=sr_1_30?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295523571&sr=1-30


Modern Combat Pistols provides a comprehensive account of the development of military and police semi-automatic pistols and their ammunition from 1945 to present day. It follows on from the same authors critically acclaimed Assault Rifle [Crowood 2004].

The first part of the book looks at defensive and offensive pistols, the difference between military and police pistols, and special-purpose weapons such as silenced and underwater pistols. The history of the handgun before 1945 is described, and there is an examination both of the development of the semi-automatic pistol since 1945 and of future trends in pistol design.

The second part of the book is divided up on a country-by-country basis. Each countrys section starts with a historical overview of pistol development in that country before giving a description and technical data for each individual weapon. Appendices cover technical aspects of semi-automatic and ammunition design.



About the Author


Maxim Popenker is a lieutenant [reserve] in the Russian armed forces. He is the creator and webmaster of the leading internet small arms resource, the 'Modern Firearms' website at www.worldguns.ru. Maxim is co-author of Assault Rifle with Anthony Williams.

---

Product Details Hardcover: 304 pages Publisher: Crowood (May 1, 2007) Language: English ISBN-10: 1861268947 ISBN-13: 978-1861268945 and also listed on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Machine-Gun-Development-Nineteenth-Century/dp/1847970303/ref=pd_sim_b_1 Machine Gun: The Development of the Machine Gun from the Nineteenth Century to the Present Day The machine gun had a dramatic effect on the conduct of warfare; one or two men operating a single machine could produce the same weight of fire as a squadron of rifles, and when used against an inferior enemy, the effect could be devestating. During the First World War, the use of the machine gun in conjunction with massed barbed wire and other obstacles put an end to battlefield mobility until new weapons and tactics could be devised. This book describes the development of the machine gun from the earliest models to the present day. The focus is very much on portable infantry weapons used in the support role, so automatic cannon of 20mm and larger calibres are excluded. The categories of weapon included are, therefore, Light Machine Guns [LMGs], a term which includes the Squad Automatic Weapon [SAW] and Light Support Weapon [LSW]; Medium Machine Guns [MMGs]; Heavy Machine Guns [HMGs] and General Purpose Machine Guns [GPMGs]. One specialist variety of machine guns is included in a separate chapter: the grenade machine gun [GMG], also known as the automatic grenade launcher [AGL]. With a country-by-country breakdown of machine guns, including comprehensive appendices of gun and ammunition data, along with hundreds of photographs, this is a comprehensive study of a most effective battlefield weapon. Book Description The machine gun had a dramatic effect on the conduct of warfare; one or two men operating a single machine could produce the same weight of fire as a squadron of rifles, and when used against an inferior enemy, the effect could be devestating. During the First World War, the use of the machine gun in conjunction with massed barbed wire and other obstacles put an end to battlefield mobility until new weapons and tactics could be devised. This book describes the development of the machine gun from the earliest models to the present day. The focus is very much on portable infantry weapons used in the support role, so automatic cannon of 20mm and larger calibres are excluded. The categories of weapon included are, therefore, Light Machine Guns [LMGs], a term which includes the Squad Automatic Weapon [SAW] and Light Support Weapon [LSW]; Medium Machine Guns [MMGs]; Heavy Machine Guns [HMGs] and General Purpose Machine Guns [GPMGs]. One specialist variety of machine guns is included in a separate chapter: the grenade machine gun [GMG], also known as the automatic grenade launcher [AGL]. With a country-by-country breakdown of machine guns, including comprehensive appendices of gun and ammunition data, along with hundreds of photographs, this is a comprehensive study of a most effective battlefield weapon. <LI>Hardcover: 352 pages <LI>Publisher: Crowood (November 15, 2008) <LI>Language: English <LI>ISBN-10: 1847970303 ISBN-13: 978-1847970305 also listed on Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Assault-Rifle-Maxim-Popenker/dp/1861267002/ref=pd_sim_b_2 Assault Rifle [Hardcover] Maxim Popenker (Author), Anthony G. Williams (Author) "For concise coverage of assault rifles right up tot he 2004 date of publication, this is an excellent book. It would be difficult to better it. Students of small arms, military historians, arms designers, and others desiring information on the latest in assault rifle design should find this a valuable reference volume." Product Description Assault Rifle provides a comprehensive account of the development of the military assault rifle and its ammunition from WWII to the present day. The book is in two parts. The first part includes: Brief historical summary of the assault rifle, its origins and development; Gun design including operating mechanisms and weapon configuration; Ammunition design and performance; Ballistics, especially the balance between recoil and effectiveness; and a History of the assault rifle cartridge. The second part includes: National military rifle programs since the end of WWII; History of developments in each country including experimental programs; and Detailed descriptions of the principal service and experimental weapons.

Got this in Australia some 20 years ago - a really good read and only AUD$10 ...