HUDSON TO CLOSE?

I recieved the following e-mail from Francky today...

Hi cerwyn,

I think you should know that Hudson will stop running the company in couple month. Please tell the guys on forum.

Thank you

francky

Shocking news considering their recent re-launch of the MkII STEN. There's no further news as yet, hopefully someone will pick up where Hudson leave off re spares and accessories.

Watch this space....

Any ideas why

I've only just recieved his original message. I've replied asking the same question, does Francky know if plans are afoot for a takeoever or what...

Hopefully we'll get to know something, either way, soon...

Sad news...

We still collect models no longer in production for 20-30 years, but loosing one of manufacturers is not a good thing, I'm afraid :-/

Hudson modelguns:
- M1A1 Thompson
- PPSh-41
- vz.61 Skorpion
- double barrel shotgun
- Mad Max shotgun
- STEN MkII
- Madsen M50
- AK-47 Kalashnikov
- M1 Garand (dummy?)
- M3A1 Grease Gun
- M14 (dummy)
- TT-33 Tokarev
- Desert Eagle
- Nanbu 14
- various Colt revolvers (SAA, Bisley, Blackhawk)
- various Derringers

and airsoft replicas:
- double-barrel shotgun
- Mad Max shotgun
- M3A1 Grease Gun
- TT-33 Tokarev
- Jericho 941

Bloody bad news! seems strange that they would release models again and a new silenced version of the sten only to close, worse news for spares really and more mags and rounds looks like i am going to have bulk buy some AK rounds now.

History repeats itself isn't it...still remembered makers like JAC making revolutionary (at that time) electric-powered Steyr AUG just days before its closure (same for MGC - everytime when they brought out anything they can to cash-in it means it's their last straw)...

From their website - apart from the Sten they're going to release AKM (but still I cannot see it coming)...

Japan's economy is getting at its worse recently - just during the past couple of days Japan Airline (JAL) is cutting some 6000 staff and some more routes...so modelguns as luxury toys cannot be avoided...

I'll get out to the shops during this weekend to snatch up the Sten/PPsH/Jericho (maybe the Garand & the M14 as well if possible/available) definitely...

jim wrote:

I'll get out to the shops during this weekend to snatch up the Sten/PPsH/Jericho (maybe the Garand & the M14 as well if possible/available) definitely...

Interesting question would be - which spare parts should be secured for Hudson modelguns? What breaks/fails most easily, so it's better to stock on parts while they are still available?

If you ask me then I would say the entire gun (because there are too many parts need to work on)...cosmetically even after some months some streaks/stains will come up on their ABS/HW pistols (namely Desert / TT-33)...

The steel (or should I say iron) used as the rear sight for some of their guns rusted extremely quick (that's what happens on my Desert Eagles ) before they "shrunk" slightly and fell out...

Also the "front sight set" for the AKs - they're made with crap alloy therefore the surface got extremely rough (cannot be buffed otherwise the entire piece will deform)...

Then the wood stock - it seems Hudson used good quality wood for it (such as Walnut or something in slightly lower class) but nowadays it seems they uses craft wood (avoid touching it with sharp nails otherwise you'll leave marks on it)...

I bought Hudsons because basically no other maker really interested on their focused models - and hopefully some small but energetic makers like CAW can take over some of their molds for future repros...

Forgot to mention the internals (bolts, etc) - but I think our skilled members here makes better custom parts for it...

And Cerwyn's right - the "rounds"...once they're gone they're gone...

Things are hard to tell - although Hudson will be gone but if anyone here remembers "Rampant Classics" (dedicated to Cowboy Guns - offering modelguns made with the far better quality Locklite instead of ABS/HW) - they're making a comeback returning to the market (just don't know how long it'll last though)...

More information from Francky...

Hi cerwyn,

The president of the Hudson company is sick in bed this 6 months, he has suffering with very serious disease which will not be cure rest of his life. He has 3 sons, they discussed and decided to sell the building to pay the debt about $800000 before their father died, and will close the Hudson company.
They are going sell some molds to tanaka works. Hudson will going to make some modelguns before close the company, but there are no possibility to produce the spares and cartridges from Hudson in the future. but I’m expecting the tanaka works will do instead.


So things are sounding a little more encouraging, if Tanaka take over there's a good chance spares and cartridges will be available for awhile at least...

We are lucky to have Francky and such precise information about what is happening, even if it's bad (and sad) news.

I am now torn between impulsive "want to buy while available" and "wait, I did not plan to get any Hudsons" ;-)

PPSh looks great, it is the only such model, but does not work very good... Same goes for AK, unfortunately :-/ and Skorpion... Deact PPSh might be a better option for those who just like the looks, it's 250EUR here:
http://www.teilesatz.de/dts_detail.php?id=1017&Chap=1
Deact AKM (modern version) is ~500 USD. More than Denix, but you get a real deal ;-)

Do you think that Tanaka would improve on Hudson design?

We certainly are lucky to have both Francky and shazhib in Tokyo. We're fortunate to be told such news so quickly

Hudson's modelguns are notoriously poor firers. This is due, I'm sure, too not just poor design but the restraints put upon the Japanese manufacturers when choosing metal to build their products with.
Steel was banned over 30 years ago. Zinc Alloys seem to have got softer during recent years. Hudson Zinc Alloy bolts in both my PPSh41 and Thompson M1A1 failed withing a few days of buying brand new models.

Replacing these parts with steel, fine tuning and setting up can produce Hudson modelguns that fire really well.

Tanaka don't have a particulary good reputation for durability either do they? They make beautifully detailed models without doubt, but some of their pistols are known to break easily.
Would Tanaka be able to successfully redesign Hudson's range?

Hmmm, you might be right about design vs law restraints. Choice of materials is definitely restricted, and it is more important for larger replicas - SMGs and rifles. Due to higher moving mass (bolt) softer metal will deform quicker...
This does not explain other issues, like the sights (mentioned by Jim). Also cartridge design did not seem as good as MGC, KSC or Marushin. Patent issues?

As for Tanaka - only time will tell. In the easiest case they will just re-run using existing design to make sure spare parts etc. are compatible. Probably only minor things would be updated. Note that Tanaka already has M1A1 model!
In the past Tanaka also reissued some other models, like Mauser Kar98k made from CMC molds (might be wrong here).

CAW remade the K98 TW remade the CMC M1 carbine

DOC

Thanks for clarification :-)

So, hope is still there, even if Tanaka already has M1A1 (their own) and M1 (from CMC).

Do Tanaka still produce their Thompson models

I'm curious to know if every component for these models is made "In-House" by each manufacturer

Cartridges for example... Did MGC make their own Do Hudson and Marushin

Or do they all buy in cartridges made to their specifications from an outside supplier If this is the case then IF demand for cartridges remains high then continued production could well be justified.

All the Caps are made by the Kane Company and packaged as their customers demand, MG, Marushin etc.

Well in my opinion - the law also applies to other makers but that doesn't stop them from having better surface finish (such as MGC/Marushin etc)...so it's more of cost cutting...

Regarding the zinc alloy it's all about the ratio of the mixture - the more of the lead the more heavy but at the same time soft/fragile/hazardous there is...remember lead is cheaper than metal by all means...

There shouldn't be any new AKs as Hudson already declared their aged AK moulds had broke - unless Tanaka decided to make a new one (unlikely)...

Cerwyn raised a good question - when I ordered the spare MP44 mag and spare dummy rounds from Shoei's Tomio san direct he stated that certain processes are sub-contracted (after I found some dents on it )

Tanaka stopped making Thompson quite some time ago but I know their quality is far better than Hudson...

Another personal opinion - Tanaka's reproduction of Beretta M9/M92F (apparently using MGC molds) doesn't feel as "right" as original MGCs...

jim wrote:

I'll get out to the shops during this weekend to snatch up the Sten/PPsH/Jericho (maybe the Garand & the M14 as well if possible/available) definitely...

OK an update after the weekend:

1) PPsH 41 - out of stock, tough...
2) Sten - the quality is so ____ that I don't really want to pay a cent for it (some material peeling on the stock of the one that I was offered) so I leave it...
3) The M1 & the M14 & the Jericho - out of stock as well...

Somehow I don't think these are related to Hudson's closure...it's just the demand of Hudson guns in HK is so low that not many shops interested in stocking too many of it - so let's see how Tanaka deal with the molds in the future...

jim wrote:

2) Sten - the quality is so ____ that I don't really want to pay a cent for it (some material peeling on the stock of the one that I was offered) so I leave it...

Peeling material is metal? Not paint?

On my Mad Max shotgun some metal flakes off from receiver. In places where process started (along an edge) you can peel small bits (as if layers) with a fingernail. Paint on metal is uneven (air bubbles?) and surface is overall quite rough (nowhere near other metal models I've seen). For metal parts it is a disappointing quality.

Yes...the flakes - it makes the Sten so poor looking (worst still it is supposed to be in brand new out-of-the-box condition...

Sometimes I just think that the end of Hudson is actually good news for us as the consumers (spending these amount of cash for toys with these quality... )

If Hudson made their AK and other longarms in ABS will they eventually gets stronger and also fires better...? God knows...

jim wrote:

Yes...the flakes - it makes the Sten so poor looking (worst still it is supposed to be in brand new out-of-the-box condition...

This is exactly my feeling when I unpacked a brand new Mad Max shotgun - my first thought was "it must be an old-new stock!" due to the weathered way the metal looked. Fortunately there is not much metal in that replica - barrels are ABS, grips wood, only the block with hinges is metal, and it's visible only on underside. I would be truly disappointed if I got a Sten with such a surface :-/

I always thought that Hudson models have much better quality. Based on older reviews, your recent STEN observation and Cerwyn's two-piece PPSh it seems that metal quality went downhill for recent production runs Maybe it's due to regulations? Older CAW/CMC/Kokusai/Marushin and recent Shoei metal (not steel) models are much more robust and the finish looks way better.

Folks: if you have an AK, Sten, Thompson, Skorpion or other Hudson with larger metal parts - could you please comment on metal quality? Surface finish, signs of flakeing, also whether it's a new production run or older one.

Ah Hudson zinc

I have an old Thompson which is showing signs of surface bubbling (which I sort of like for that WW2 world look ) but I’m not sure if it was down to owner abuse of factory quality issues

I have a soft spot for Hudson models but I’ve found that the quality of their zinc (bolts included) is not as good as MGC and Marushin.

But all of the modelgun manufacturers have issues with quality control which is made worse by no warranty but I suppose it's the nature of cap firing replica guns

8ace

smootik wrote:

On my Mad Max shotgun some metal flakes off from receiver.

Quoting myself...

Here is two photos (original and a magnified part).

Surface on a part with a screw has paint bubbles that are flaking off the metal. Actually this is still a better finished part, quite smooth except for the bubbles.
The part between screw and wood is in much worse shape. Surface is rough, paint has peeled off in a few places already (had the same bubbles before). An edge of that part, near the gap towards the screw, is falling apart, I hope you can see it on magnification. It started to fall apart because the part you see is a shotgun hinge. You have to break shotgun to cock the hammers. Unfortunately, due to design, you need to break it quite strongly, otherwise hammers do not cock. Both parts seen here touch! You can see a vertical scratch just to the right of the screw, this is where the edge of the left part lands. Contact led to the initial edge damage, but once the process started, this area is quite brittle and you can break off a flake using just a fingernail.
Surface finish on that part is much worse than on the right part, more rough and uneven. This is what made "too long in storage" effect that I have mentioned.



This is not to scare you away from Hudson, just to make you aware :-)

It's a month-old "news", but it is yet another confirmation of Hudson closing :-(
http://www.wwiiguns.com/display_news.php?id=189

17.11 2009 17:55 | IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: Discontinued model list

Due to one of our suppliers closing their operations and manufacturing at end of 2009 some of the models we sell will no longer be available after the new year. See below for the full list. These models will no longer be available for purchase from early 2010 onwards but we will make every effort to carry some of them as a second hand models. Due to expected scarcity and market value of the second hand models prices of the second hand models are expected to go up significantly in comparison to the factory new models. The current stock of factory new models will be sold on first-come-first-served basis.

DISCONTINUED MODELS
Thompson M1A1 Full Set [Replica cap firing model gun]
Thompson M1A1 New version [Replica cap firing model gun]
M1 Garand [Replica non-firing model gun]
M3A1 Grease Gun 3rd edition [Replica cap firing model gun]
M3A1 Grease Gun 3rd edition Full Set [Replica cap firing model gun]
Sten Mk II [Replica cap firing model gun]
Sten Mk II Suppressed [Replica cap firing model gun]