MGC KIMBER .45 Breaking Barrels

Post by Claymore

I was going to do a review on this gun the MGC Kimber swat custom LAPD model and do a comparison with its smaller brother, i was also going to do vid of them both.
However as you might gather from me posting it here on the problems page ther was problems! This model has been a problem since i bought it. Out of the box it looked great a little light but a really great looking gun and accurate (i fired a real one in florida recently and the modelgun is accurate to the real thing).
I expected great things with this model as the slide moved very freely which on some of the 45's i have is not the case initially, so i loaded it and fired wow! did it throw those ronds out with force and the gun made a good crack in the sound department, great. so fired another round then another, um! strange the 3rd round was more like a breach explosion so on checking the gun oh! yes the barrel had broke from underneath the chamber and splitting it all the way around. 3 rounds and it broke,great so another barrel ordered 2 in fact, they finally arrived first barrel lasted 3 rounds the 2nd actually lasted 7. Chrome barrels on this model in fact all MGC 45's i think are crap and should be used for display only the weakness of the chrome barrel is well known apparently anyway so a black barrel was bought.

Black barrel on fired the gun first rounds broke the extractor BLOODY HELL! now getting annoyed so another extractor comes 5 rounds later extractor breaks again, what is going on so another extractor bought and i sit down with the gun and check everthing and seems to be fine.

So load a mag and fire, 7 rounds later and no problems, dare i try another mag? yes another mag fired and AOK. Now i am happy the gun fires great makes a great sound the slide really cracks back and it throws the rounds well + it looks great so review has to be next.

As i have both the full size and compact versions i thought a side by side review would be good and of course with vid. so i start with the full size model, 2 mags fired through and the gun is going great so a 3rd mag needed to go through (tempting fate now) and first round and another breach explosion and the barrel split, now this is a black barrel so should be strong.

So what can i say, dont buy one, i really dont know maybe its just me or maybe its one of those models that cannot be fired or only 1 mag every firing is all you dare. this is a great looking gun but with all the problems i have had i am scared to use it anymore, barrels are not a problem to get and are not too expensive but when i fire a model i like to put 3 to 4 mags through it at a time which it seems i cannot do with this gun.

If anyone has any ideas why this happens to the barrel or have similar problems with other mgc 45's let me know especially if you have sorted the problem out

Post by Mark

Man, that's bad news claymore!

As I don't have a clue just why the MGC .45 barrels break as often as they have for you, I have decided to take my available MGC .45's apart to see what possible areas that I can spot as weak. Also, I will see if there is any thing that can be done about the barrel(s) to see if there is a "fix" that can be put in place to prevent the barrel from having a premature and early death. As I have not had any barrels break on me (yet, as I rarely shoot any of the MGC .45's in my collection.


Looking at my available MGC .45 barrels, I will note their differences as well as their visible weak points and any possible fixes. This is an illustration that I have drawn-up to illustrate the key dimensions of the MGC .45 barrels that I have in my possession. This by all means is not a complete list of the different MGC .45 barrels if you have any dimensions to add please let me know. This might be a little large for many monitors and might be bad on dial-up sorry...

A general over-view of the MGC .45 barrel shows that there are many variants of the .45 barrel that MGC has made over the years from the earliest all metal to the latest HW versions. The all plastic barrels are our focus here as they are certainly the most common today. The barrels are usually molded out of ABS resin some are "chrome" plated while the vast majority are black.

The barrels commonly have a black satin finish that is molded in the parting line is located on the side of the barrel and it doesn't look to be a weak point in their construction. The molding is clean with out "flash" and the color as well as the plastics consistency is good. The ABS resin used in the barrels molding seems to be fairly hard when scratched with a sharp knife indicating that it is possibly brittle when excessive shock is applied. NOT GOOD.

The feed ramp that is molded into the barrel is thin at the chambers bottom sides and this I think just might be a big problem for longevity of the barrels in the MGC .45 especially the later "real size".45's that probably have really thin barrels in that area. As I don't have a "real size" .45 at this time, I cannot tell if their barrels are weak at that point. The barrels are fairly thick at their sides whether that is mostly due to the fact that these use the earlier CP cartridges that are smaller in diameter and so they have thicker walls I don't know..

The detonator is held in place with a small set-screw at the barrels bottom as well as internal "ribs" to center the detonator in the chamber. As this set-screw is carbon steel it can rust and swell eventually splitting the barrels bottom if the set-screw is left in place and allowed to rust after the barrel is clean..The detonator is made out of stainless steel and it has a groove that the set-screw goes into. Too much strain on this screw due to being overly tight can cause problems as well as strip out the threads in the barrel.

The plastic lower part of the barrel just below the chamber is for a rotating barrel link that is supposed to lower the barrel in the real gun during recoil. MGC (as well as Marushin) probably thought that they needed to include this feature for realism. Otherwise, this feature is not needed as the locking-lugs on the barrel never come close to the recesses in the slides underside. This rotating link is made out of thin stamped blued steel and it pivots on a solid steel pin. The link is hardened and it rotates freely in it's travel it's front end has a flat area that the recoil spring guide fits against. This area that the link is attached to is fairy thick and it looks strong.


The barrels fit in the slide is best described as "loose" at best and I doubt that it's loose fit will cause any undue stress to the barrel.





The MGC "Bowling Pin" version's bull barrel:

Actually, this isn't really a "bull barrel" its really a 6.25" long government model barrel with a sleeve/compensator that slips over the barrel and it is retained with a set screw.

This is a so called "black" barrel and it is set up for the earlier small CP .45 cartridges not the late model real size type. I did notice some possible damage on the bottom of barrel below the chamber area just above the barrel pivot! It looks like two deep cuts (dents?)This indicates to me that the barrel is or was being slammed against the sharp edges on the frame next to the feed ramp. These edges should be filed smooth as they are fairly sharp to the touch. To me, it looks as if the barrel was being slammed into the frame when it was being fired due to some bind in the action or something? (again, I really haven't fired this MGC very much)

The barrel has "BARSTO 45 ACP" on its chamber top.

It's dimensions are as per above illustration:

1. 6.25" long

2. .910"

3. .579"

4. 4.340"

5. .671"

6. 1.209"

7. 2.446"

8. .414"

9. 1.150"

10. .663"

11. .381"

12. .679"

13. .90"


The Colt Combat Commander (series 70) barrel(s) as I have two of these, I measured them and their barrel dimensions are on the "dot"

These are still the earlier small CP .45 cartridge barrels and they are both black in color. As I have only fired one and rarely at that, I detected no damage as well as no wear that was apparent at least to me.


Their dimensions are:

1. 4.274"

2. .840"

3. .579"

4. 2.241"

5. .683"

6. .685"

7. 1.210"

8. .415"

9. 1.083"

10. .668"

11. .376"

12. .578"

13. .090"

I will try to get more information on the other MGC .45's that I have in my collection and post them tomorrow as it's getting late here.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Claymore

Mark, Thanks for such a detailed explaination, i have an older model gold cup longslide and have had no problems with it, it does take the older round with the copper coloured head though and not the new real size rounds.
Here is a pic of where the barrel broke, this is the same place as the chrome as well, i thought that maybe the gun jammed and the between the round and the slide postion it forced the barrel and broke it, however this time the barrel did not jam.


Maybe the pic might help with some thoughts. I have put a chrome barrel back on as i had one spare (dont expect it to last more than 1 round though) and i will have to get some spare black ones from francky. Plain old ABS (or better metal) would be better than these resin types i think, dont look as good i know but they are a lot stronger.

Post by Spencerman

I was just wondering looking at your photo Claymore, and I do not have a Kimber, though I was planning to get one, but does the barrel float properly. I am sure that you know what I mean by that, but just for everyone elses benefit, the term float is that given to the barrel when it rocks back and forward with the slide. I was just wondering if it was not floating properly, or maybe the locating lugs not quite locating properly, then that could cause the barrel to bend when it is fired, the resulting stress from that action would cause what you have. Manually cycling the gun might not show that up too easily, as that is at no real speed and puts little tension on the parts.
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Post by DOC

Mine have actually only ever broken (once again) at the area where the small hole is positioned for the hex screw .
Saying that I have one with a matt chrome barrel that has fired at least 25 mags worth and is still going strong (touchwood)
I once figured that it may have been caused by the piston inside the cartridge sticking (jaming) and sending all the force forwards instead of backwards..I think I later discounted this idea but cannot for the life of me remember why now.
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Mark

Wow claymore thanks for the picture!

It illustrates the problem nicely.

I do see some suspicious looking dents at the lowest part of the barrel that actually looks like it has been hitting the slide stop HARD. That can (and will cause enough stress to break the barrel in the place that you illustrated. There is also another dent that i can see that is near the top of the link/barrel junction that looks like it was caused by the recoil spring assy hitting the bottom and (again) causing a binding situation like spencerman has mentioned. The barrel bushing can cause the problem if it puts too much of a bind on the barrel.

I have been to many Japanese modelgun sites and looked for the broken barrel problem. I also noticed rather few instances of the phenomenon witch puzzled me as I thought that perhaps this might be a prevalent problem that has escaped my attention to this point.

I observed a possible fix one that Francky can (possibly) help you with. I have seen on some sites a brass sleeved chamber that is made for firing extreme loads of the flash powder for movie use. This brass sleeved barrel I think, is for sale in Japan and I am sure that Francky has offered them to us before. The brass sleeve looks like it will prevent the barrel from breaking at that particular area at least. I have seen on many of the Japanese sites that the MGC .45's have fired lot's of caps and they still have their original barrels???
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Claymore

Thanks for the replies boys, all the reason you have stated could be the problem and it does seem i am an isolated case maybe its just the way my gun is made. I have looked at the barrel you describe mark i think it was extremly expensive though.
There is one more thing, the Kimber and the MEU trust model have an extra feed ramp, the pic is of the MEU trust one which is plastic (not yet fired) the Kimber's is metal, i wonder if this could be causing a problem with bot letting the barrel move correctly or just putting stress on it somehow, any thoughts? as i would like to get this gun firing as reliabley as others.

Post by Mark

Hmm, I didn't know that the MEU version had an add on ramp (a metal one at that) it looks much like a late real size .45 barrel with the ramp simply pinned on. The fact is, that both the barrel(s) as well as two extractors broke in this gun at this point that certainally tells me that there is something wrong with that gun itself.....

The barrel as well as the extractor breaking in a short time tells me that there is a binding/interference/hammering situation going on there that needs to be looked into before another new barrel/extractor is wasted in it.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms