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 Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..

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mikey1968
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 12, 2011 10:03 pm

Hello all,
Just won a nice condition display only MGC68 off eBay...got it for $405...pretty good deal, eh?

It's in great shape, has the cut bolt with two vent holes and blocked barrel. It also has the telopscoped spring rather than the exposed.

Ideally, I'd like to convert it to shoot the Marushin cartridges/caps.....doesn't seem like this is an easy thing to do, is it? Locating a good MGC bolt is nearly impossible, then, finding a custom detonator pin seems difficult.....would I need an open barrel?

If anyone has a good detailed write up for a Marushin conversion with a nice dimensioned drawing of the detonator pin...let me know. I did find a place selling Marushin pins and might be able to thread or press into a bronze plug or something. Still think finding an MGC bolt is the long pole in my plans here.

One thing I need help with is the folding stock tubes slide off the large pins at the body of the gun....not the shoulder stock end but the end with the large push button that holds it in locked open/closed. It appears this used to be press fit. I can either JB weld it or hammer a dimple to have an interference fit. Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance!
Mikey
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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn


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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 16, 2011 5:51 pm

Hi mikey,

finding a good condition, MGC68 Zinc bolt is likely to be your problem, but not impossible.
Your best bet would be to contact someone that converts the cap-firing MGC68 MP40 to Blank Firing ammunition as they would replace the original bolt with a much stronger steel one.

You also need to check to make sure the trunnion hasn't been cut along its length. This was also done on some dummy only MGC68s to prevent firing of any description.
Drilled holes through the barrel nut right through into the chamber also need sorting.

A completely open barrel is desireable, but not essential. As long as you can remove the plug at the chamber end to fit a Detonator Pin.
Details on plug removal are here in the MGC68 MP40 category

Conversion to fire Marushin PFC cartridges has been done successfully by member(s) here so hopefully they can help you with Det.Pin dimensions.

The drawing I posted up would help you make a Pin suitable to fire MGC P220 cartridges which were the first choice but as supplies of P220 cartridges have all but dried up he Marushin route seems the way to go.
Make sure caps are going to be available before spending lots of money on parts and cartridges though.

Hope this helps some, a good read through the category will describe several of the things to look out for when converting this model too

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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn


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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 16, 2011 6:44 pm

Hold everything....

I've just spotted new unused MGC68 Blowback bolts for sale at MGCUK Very Happy

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mikey1968
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 1:23 am

Thank you for your reply!!!!

Soooo...if the trunnion is cut it won't fire caps at all? Do you have any pics showing this? Not sure what you are referring to.

The plug easily drops into my hand so that should work.

I was told by another model gun expert here in the US that all caps are no longer being imported here and not to bother converting.....he recommended to just buy a Marushin and hang my MGC on the wall.

The website you refer to has disposable cartridges...is this a better conversion? Same parts needed?

To be honest, I was discouraged with the high prices of parts and the loss of cap availability being imminent. When I first bought this I figured it wouldn't fire anything but I found this site and I love to tinker so was thinking this can't be all that difficult.

Sooooo.......will there be a supply of caps?

Final consideration....would a conversion add monetary value to the gun?

Thanks,
Mike
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Cerwyn
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 9:24 am



Hi mikey,

The Trunnion is shown here as Part No.26 It's the threaded part onto which the barrel nut screws onto. It also serves as the Detonator Chamber

Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Photo0132


This is a cut chamber from a MGC Sterling, some of the MGC68 MP40s have their Trunnion / Chambers cut like this making them incapable of firing cap loaded cartridges
Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. DSCF0156

To remove the trunnion from the receiver tube, remove the two socket head screws from the magazine well and carefully tap the trunnion out.

The big question hanging over everything at this particular time is future cap availability. If caps DO manage to be shipped out of Japan, then a conversion to cap-firing may well be worth considering. Actually firing these modelguns IS great fun after all.
If caps become unavailable, the best you could do after conversion is cycle cartridges through the modelgun by hand... nowhere near as much fun as firing obviously but it would give a little more realism.

Marushin ABS MP40s are available and reasonably priced. It is possible that buying a good used example could be less expensive than converting your MGC68 MP40.
The Marushin will cycle cartridges and fires well (as long as caps are available obviously).

It's a quandry this one, a cap firing MGC68 MP40 will be more appealing than a Display only Dummy so it's reasonable to expect it to be worth more. But if caps cannot be sourced, will the expense of conversion be worth it Question



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mikey1968
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 1:04 pm

I think the trunnion is un-cut.....

Take a look at the pictures from the auction......plus, what do you think of it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=330535395943&si=Hh366Yqm3781JUEE%252FAgTTPuVCgw%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Again thanks!
I'm still trying to figure it all out....
Mikey
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Cerwyn
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 2:56 pm

You might well be right mikey, looking at this:
Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. KGrHqZhoE1hgrZdBNCFokuUQ_3

there doesn't appear to be a wide cut along the trunnion similar to the Stirling example and other MP40s I've seen which is good news

This photo shows what looks like a drilled hole through the receiver which would go through the chamber though

Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. KGrHqZhIE1frqKyVBNCG8rkH_3

there are articles here explaining how this hole (or possibly 2) can be plugged however so a conversion is looking closer...

One thought I had was that converting to KSC 9mm Luger cartridges could give you better firing performance than with Marushin carts. These are relatively inexpensive, work well and should work with the same Detonator Pin used in the P220 conversion. There is a detailed drawing of the Det.Pin here that you might use to make one

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mikey1968
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 5:40 pm

Yes, it does have the two venting holes described in another thread, right in front of the magazine well. Don't recall seeing how to plug them. If left unplugged, wouldn't the smoke and sparks go out that?

I'm kinda wanting to be able to reverse the conversion at will.

Yes, I did download a copy of the det pin dimensions. Does anyone routinely make these?

Now...for those blasted caps! (Excuse the pun!) Very Happy

So far, the cost estimate is approaching $300 for a bolt, pin and 32 cartridges....sighh.....
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Cerwyn
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 5:48 pm



If left unplugged, smoke and sparks would vent from those holes, more so because your barrel is closed.
I'm sure kiwigunner drilled and tapped those holes then screwed in a bolt to plug each hole. You could either grind the bolt heads flush or cut a slot into them so you could take them out at will.


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metradio
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 6:24 pm

mikey1968 wrote:
...One thing I need help with is the folding stock tubes slide off the large pins at the body of the gun....not the shoulder stock end but the end with the large push button that holds it in locked open/closed. It appears this used to be press fit. I can either JB weld it or hammer a dimple to have an interference fit. Any other ideas?

Hi Mikey, If you mean the joint of part 62 and 66.. I think the originals were drilled and pinned using Roll Pins.

Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Photo0132

Roll Pin = Split Pin = Spring Pin:

www.engineersedge.com

Mike
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mikey1968
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeThu Mar 17, 2011 9:25 pm

I actually went ahead and used JB Weld to epoxy the tubes to the pins.......seems to work so far.

Oh, by the way, no hole in the barrel nut, either.....seems to be a mix of dummy and firing parts here. Neutral
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Cerwyn
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 12:58 pm

At least you won't have to worry about repairing or finding a barrel nut cheers Bear in mind these steel bodied MGC68 MP40s haven't been manufactured since the late 1970s. That's 30-40 years ago so who knows how many hands these have passed through in that time.
Yours could've left the factory with an undrilled nut, or someone fitted it later, either way it saves you a job Wink

If you buy a bolt, make sure it's matched to the ejector in yours. Some have central ejectors and some are offset.
The bolt's feed rails differ to suit... see https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t1832-non-firing-model-cut-bolts-and-firing-versions-in-pictures to see the difference.
The ejector is shown here ... just below the number 17, right edge of drawing just above the barrel
Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Photo0131
This photo shows the "offset" ejector which yours will most likely have, the ejector sits immediately behind the magazine and to the left of the cartridge in the photo

Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. DSC00890

The bolt you'll need should have a single feed rail

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mikey1968
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 1:15 pm

I took a look and the ejector is in fact to the left.

Will the bolts for sale on the link you gave me work?

I'm very tempted to go ahead and order one regardless of my long term decision just because they are nearly impossible to find. It would be a better investment than most stocks, I think!

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mikey1968
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 1:23 pm

OHHHHHH NOOOOO!!!!

I checked their shipping and they said they can't ship parts out of the country! I'm in the US.
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Cerwyn
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 1:26 pm

I would say Yes, the photos on MGCUKs site show bolts with single feed rails so you should be ok.
Kevin at MGCUK will confirm with you that his new bolts will suit your model (or not)

Very Happy

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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 1:29 pm

Fear not mikey, check the Sales Items link, you'll see that overseas shipping IS permitted on these bolts Wink

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mikey1968
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 3:07 pm

Yup, they should work and he said he can send one....looking into the details... Very Happy
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeFri Mar 18, 2011 4:39 pm

mikey1968 wrote:
Yup, they should work and he said he can send one....looking into the details... Very Happy

Very Happy Good news then cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 23, 2011 10:16 am

Hi Mikey,

Referring back to metradio's post about Rollpins, I found his detailed thread about stock arm repairs:-

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mikey1968
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 23, 2011 1:03 pm

It was actually the tubes slipping over the large stock pins I was having trouble with. JB Weld did the trick.

For now, I've thrown in the towel on converting. I can drive to Vegas a few hours away and fire a real MP 40 for less time and money.

Your shop in England won't take credit cards or PayPal so wiring money is extremely expensive so I'm done on buying anything from him.....not helpful at all. Never heard of "We don't take US credit cards" before......Visa and Mastercard are worldwide!

Thanks!!!!
Mike
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smootik
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Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 23, 2011 1:55 pm

mikey1968 wrote:
Your shop in England won't take credit cards or PayPal so wiring money is extremely expensive so I'm done on buying anything from him.....not helpful at all. Never heard of "We don't take US credit cards" before......Visa and Mastercard are worldwide!
They are not worldwide for internet purchases. Many internet shops based in USA do not accept non-USA credit cards either (more precisely - they require a card to have a US billing address), so I can understand an English shop doing the same for security.

Lucky you with Las Vegas shooting ranges :-) Real guns are often cheaper than modelguns, except for legal issues :-/
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metradio
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 23, 2011 4:31 pm

mikey1968 wrote:
....For now, I've thrown in the towel on converting. I can drive to Vegas a few hours away and fire a real MP 40 for less time and money....

But can you bring it home and take it to bed with you? Very Happy

Quote :
...I found his detailed thread about stock arm repairs:-
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t534-mp40-loose-stock-arm-pins?highlight=mgc+mp40

Blimey I wrote that years ago - in 2005..
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeWed Mar 23, 2011 6:11 pm

metradio wrote:
mikey1968 wrote:
....For now, I've thrown in the towel on converting. I can drive to Vegas a few hours away and fire a real MP 40 for less time and money....

But can you bring it home and take it to bed with you? Very Happy

Laughing Good point that met' ... I like it Laughing


Quote :
...I found his detailed thread about stock arm repairs:-
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t534-mp40-loose-stock-arm-pins?highlight=mgc+mp40

metradio wrote:
Blimey I wrote that years ago - in 2005..

Yep, I've got a memory for a man of my age... knew I'd seen it somewhere Wink To be honest, I found it a lot quicker because I'd cross referenced it in the specific MGC68 MP40 category. I'm glad I did now Very Happy

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mikey1968
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 26, 2011 5:32 pm

Now THAT's funny rat thar!!!!

I got some pouches for the magazines that I don't have....guess I could paint some wood black and stick em in there....
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metradio
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PostSubject: Re: Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions..   Newbie got a MGC68 and have a few questions.. Icon_minitimeSat Mar 26, 2011 8:41 pm

A good site on the real deal MP40:

http://www.mp40.nl

Mike
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