Help Identifying 2 Guns (Pic Heavy)

Hello guys.

Some time back now I brought a couple of Colts however the sellers had no idea as to the make of these and I am equally at a loss.

The first is a full metal Colt SAA Cavalry in nickle finish. The gun is gorgeous but I am having a hard time getting any cartridges for it as I have no idea what kind I need or even what model the gun is (from the box I am guessing Kokusai as the box is exactly the same as the civilian model 45 SAA shown on plugfirecapguns.com).

This gun also has a cylinder issue. It is very loose so even when I find cartridges for it, I do not know how well it will work because once fired the cylinder seems to freely spin for a moment. It is hard to describe so if required I can take a short video clip. Can this issue be fixed on these (I may well sell this anyway as I have another colt 45 peacemaker already which I prefer).

Pictures for this are below.











The next colt 45 is also full metal and front shooting. The brass cartridges in the pictures were in the cylinder and are just empty shells (just brass dummy ones) and are marked '44 Russian' (the barrel is stamped with Model Single Action Army .45). Also marked 'Model 1874' which is really hard to make out because it has faded away. These are the only real markings other than the circle with with looks like a 'M' inside it that is marked on the side. The grips on this also look like they are replacements as they wobble slightly and don't fit perfectly. The lock up and such is perfect on this and I am wanting to keep this one but as with the one above - I have no idea what make it is and what cartridges it would take. Pictures below...









Any and all help would be appreciated.

Hi Ammo;

The Black Colt looks like an early model made for RMI by MGC of Tokyo - the "M" really looks like part of their logo, which is often found on the pistol grips:



The sliver colt I am unfamiliar with, but if not a CMC model then maybe a Tanaka model - someone here will know for sure....hey Smootik....where are you?

Nice modelguns! Well found!It will be good to get confirmation of theor identities.



Kiwigunner

Thank you Kiwigunner. Any idea what kind if cartridges I should be looking out for to fit these? Both came without carts and at the time I never really thought about how hard it might be to get them without knowing what models they are, lol. Both sellers had been using these as display pieces.

I recently acquired a .44 Magnum in nickle finish as well (huge thing!) and I will post pictures of that on here too as I can do with confirmation on what model that is too. It thankfully came with 6 carts and I will describe them (will add pictures when I get home at some point today or tomorrow). I know the caps it takes are 5mm (I so far only have 7mm which were too big so will need to order some 5mm ones) and unlike the cartridges I currently have for my other PFC's this cart doesn't open up. You pop the cap at the tip and the cart splits open (spring loaded) in the middle when the hammer hits the 'primer'. Sorry for the poor way in describing the action, lol. I will try post some pictures when I can.

Hi Ammo;

If it is an MGC RMI MColt, then it will take the same MGC .44 cartridges as shown in this post about the MGC Winchester 73.
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t239-mgc-winchester-m-73?highlight=winchester

Just scroll down to the cartridge post.

They can sometimes be hard to get - but there may be some members on this forum who might have some for sale. You can always post a WTB in the Buy/Sell Modelgun section here: https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/f8-buy-sell-modelguns-parts-cartridges

I'll look forward to seeing your photos when you have time.


Kiwigunner

There's just too many SAA variants and I am not a revolver guy, but...
...based on markings the silver one seems to be a Kokusai indeed, their second release of SAA.
It was based on earlier CMC model. Should be same as the one on plugfirecapguns.com, except different barrel length and different markings.
Can't read it 100% out from pictures - right side should have maker name.

No idea about what cartridges would fit it, it's not in our cartridge database yet.
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/f52-cartridge-library-new

I am getting blind, Kokusai SAA cartridge was sitting there right at the top :-)
Good that Cerwyn is there to correct me :-D

Thank you for help with that silver one guys. Do any of you know how I would go about possibly fixing the loose cylinder on it and possibly a rough idea on what the gun might be worth if I sell it?

I'll start hunting around for cartridges for it too.

Re the free-spinning cylinder: remove the cylinder and check the spring tension on the pawl that locks the cylinder (you can see it lying under the cylinder in your photos.)
A twin (split) leaf spring that lies beneath it, one half often breaks or looses its tension. and the pawl lock stops working. If that is the case it needs to have a replacement installed.The other half forms the trigger sear spring.
Have a look and let us know.

Kiwigunner

Thank you Kiwigunner. I'll have a look at it tomorrow as soon as I get home in the morning and report back what I find.

Had a look at the SAA and it looks like it was the leaf spring that was the issue after all. One of the bits that pushes the stop up to prevent the cylinder from free spinning is snapped off (it looks like someone had replaced it with a fresh one at some point because there was another leaf spring stacked on the previous) but this new one had also snapped. Now the big question... where does one source one of these leaf springs? If it was replaced in this gun at one point then it must be possible to get another.

Also, I have thought about selling the model on to one of the PFC stores online and they are asking me what amount for it would make me happy. Does anyone have a rough idea on what it this model goes for (a Kokusai SAA Cavalry in full metal and nickle finish - side venting).

Thank you again for the help Kiwigunner especially with the scanned image you sent, it helped a lot.


Oh, on a side note that 44 magnum I had spoken of... found out its a Kokusai 44 magnum (said it on the side of the model). Picture below just in case anyone wanted to see it.

Your'e more than welcome - it sounds like the spring is a chronic problem if there's be a replacement job before. I'd either get one made (easy job if you have the tools, materials & time). I had had to replace the trigger spring in my S&W Scholfield Wyatt Earp replica last week. I used a Dremmel to cut one from some spring steel off an office clip-board!

But maybe you can buy a similar spring and make it fit from another SAA Colt - to avoid the chronic break?
It may be just that these springs have a tendency to break off anyway.

You Magnums look nice!

Kiwigunner