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 Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions

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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn (Site Admin)
Cerwyn


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PostSubject: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSun Sep 16, 2012 11:15 am


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Cerwyn

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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSun Sep 16, 2012 11:59 am

thanks for moving it cerwyn.

have managed to get all the trigger parts in, not sure if anyone has done their's but that is a pig of a job.
also got all the action in but it all feels a little tight, may just need bedding in though.
it does not seem to cycle inert 7.92 rounds, does anyone know if these are different to the shoei dummy rounds.

atb
jay
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSun Sep 16, 2012 1:00 pm

Hi Jay

I've only got my CMC K98 to compare but with the Detonator Pin in place inside the chamber, inert 7.92mm rds are too long to cycle through. The previous owner of mine pushed the bullets deeper into the brass cases to shorten them enough to cycle cleanly through by hand.

Checking the Cartridge Library, Tanaka K98 AND Shoei FG42 Cap Firing cartridges are listed with dimensions:

How do they compare to the real inert rds you have Question
It's useful grouping all information for particular modelguns together as it makes finding that info so much easier Wink

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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSun Sep 16, 2012 1:22 pm

hi cerwyn
cheers fella that helps, i have got a few detonator pins for the g43 from tomio that screw into the chamber. any chance some time that you can measure the tanaka detonator pin, just length and diameter please.

atb
jay.

oh and the inert rounds do not cycle even with no pin in the chamber.
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeThu Sep 27, 2012 12:43 pm

Hi jay,

It's likely to be awhile before I can strip my CMC K98 down but in the meantime here's a photo of the Detonator Pin copied from smootik's Strip-Down Guide:

Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions 099-pi10
I know this doesn't give actual dimensions but you might just be able to use this photo and scale the Pin roughly enough to compare with the G43 Det.Pins you've had from Tomio.
I realised too that I'd referred you to Shoei FG42 PFC cartridges in error rather than G43. Please accept my apologies for that. I don't know for sure but would I be right thinking that Shoei's FG42 and G43 cap-firers might well use the same cartridge ? They're both 7.92mm and both require BlowBack operation. The CMC/Tanaka K98 is 7.92mm again but doesn't need BlowBack as its a Bolt Action rifle.
Not having seen either a G43 or FG42 Cap-Firing Det.Pin I'd hazzard a guess and say it's a lot longer than the K98's pin.
Does anyone out there have a Cap-Firing G43 that could give us Cartridge Dimensions please ?

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Cerwyn
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Cerwyn


Number of posts : 11090
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 11:03 am



While discussing your chambering problems with smootik, he told me that SHOEI sold kits to convert some dummy cartridge models to PFC cap-firing. Apparently the kit included a new chamber which, we think, was not as deep as the Dummy type. Cartridges supplied in the kit were shorter than the Dummies too.

So, by the sound of it, you've quite likely got a PFC cap-firing chamber in your G43 Idea This could well be why yours will not chamber the real, inert rds.

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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeFri Sep 28, 2012 6:05 pm

thanks for the info cerwyn, much appreciated.
the more i think of it, it would make sense to use the same carts for the fg42/g43 as they are the same caliber.
i have two chambers from different sources so will compare to see if they are the same, but im sure both have a threaded hole in them for a detonator pin.
looks like i may need to find some fg42 pfc's then........thats going to be fun lol.

atb
jay
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSat Sep 29, 2012 2:14 pm

Fortunately we've got FG42 PFC cartridge dimensions in the Library which should be useful when checking chamber depth. Don't go spending good money on FG cartridges until we know for sure they'll fit as I've been assuming they're likely to be the same ones in the G43

Tomio would be a good one to ask, he seems approachable enough and if doesn't know then no-one will Exclamation Wink

Keep us posted please and I'm sure if we find out any more we'll let you know.

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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSat Oct 06, 2012 10:10 pm

got an email from tomio saying that he can not remember how, but the fg42 and g43 pfc carts are different. and after taking a look at the g43 pfc bolt it uses an offset firing pin. this means ( i think) that the back of the cart should be open like the cmc/tanaka kar98 carts, so that the firing pin pushes the inner body of the cart onto the detonator pin. if i remember correctly when i had a pfc fg42, it works by slam firing the bolt onto the detonator pin. even in semi the bolt stops short, then then travels the final distance when the trigger is pulled.this would not work in the g43 as it would just make it full auto. i have some tanaka carts but would these be capable of blowback as they are designed for a bolt action rifle, i would have to modify the detonator pin aswell.

atb
jay
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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeSun Oct 07, 2012 1:36 pm

some pics of the g43 det. pin and tanaka kar98 carts. the pin diameter is too large for the hole in the carts but should be able to modify it.

Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Carts019
Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Carts020
Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Carts021
Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Carts022

atb
jay
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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeTue Oct 09, 2012 8:41 pm

Have measured up my inert rounds and the casing neck diameter is too big for the chambers i have by approx. .5mm
and the chamber is too short for the tanaka rounds too, so have drilled the bottom of the chamber out and the tanaka carts fit right down now. i have been looking at the tanaka carts and would i be right in thinking that i would not need a detonator pin in the chamber.
The aluminium inner of the cart has the detonator on it and the hole on the front end of the cart is quite small and just a smoke outlet.
What do you guys think.

Atb
jay
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smootik
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeWed Oct 10, 2012 10:12 am

jay851 wrote:
i have been looking at the tanaka carts and would i be right in thinking that i would not need a detonator pin in the chamber.
The aluminium inner of the cart has the detonator on it and the hole on the front end of the cart is quite small and just a smoke outlet.
5mm cap is facing forward, towards detonator pin in the chamber. Aluminum inner is only pushing it, at least in my carts - it seems to be much longer than yours. Scroll down to "cartridges" section to see:
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t2189-cmc-mauser-karabiner-98k-kar98k-metal

Edit: I thought about CMC cartridges, apparently Tanaka are slightly different, sorry for confusion.
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeWed Oct 10, 2012 11:11 am

I had always been led to believe that Tanaka and CMC cartridges were interchangeable, both being useable in CMC's K98

However, looking at your Tanaka carts, assuming Length & Diameter dimensions are the same, the internals appear very different. CMC carts have a 5mm cap pushed into the "bullet" nose. The longer inner keeps it in place and pushes it onto the Det.Pin in the chamber to fire.

Your Tanaka carts have a much shorter inner and yes, that does look very much like a Firing Pin on its' tip. I wonder if you need to place the cap in the copper "bullet", charge facing back towards the inner. This would be similar to open barrel revolver cartridges which have a "built in" Det.Pin.

Could you possibly take some photos of inside the cartridge please? Does the copper top unscrew?

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jay851
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeWed Oct 10, 2012 11:17 am

thanks guys, i will get some pics up. the copper head does not unscrew but looking inside it does seem like there is a seat for a cap to sit facing backwards towards the pin on the inner. im sure these are stated as 7mm too.

atb
jay
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Cerwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions   Shoei G43 Receiver Dimensions & Further Discussions Icon_minitimeWed Oct 10, 2012 11:29 am

a 7mm cap would make perfect sense if it seats facing backwards towards the rim. I'm pretty sure now it's the same set-up as the open barrel revolver cartridge.

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