cap ignition issues (marushin 1911)

Hello everyone,
so recently I got a Marushin 1911 kit which I built and had some MG caps in the beginning, and when the cartridges were brand new all the caps would work fine, no misfires at all, only a couple jams here and there (like any 1911 would have).
But as time went on I was starting to have a few problems, I recently purchased flame caps and every round I fire is a misfire (not due to the caps, there can't be that many faulty caps at once). When I fire the cartridges now, the cap ignites and produces enough force to make the slide go back and eject the round but not enough to make the spark/smoke effect (which is the reason I went towards buying a model gun instead of a shell ejecting airsoft, aside from the fact that the airsoft shells don not look nearly as nice as those of model guns).
Anyway, I feel like I am loading the cartridges right, I even purchased the same exact silicone grease used on the beginners guides to loading cartridges threads... I first clean the inside of the cartridge thoroughly with Q tips, then I apply grease to the piston (the part that goes in first when loading the cartridge), I even put grease on the cap which I feel isn't necessary because it's the piston that needs to have free movement...I also apply grease to the detonator pin while making sure the part that hits the cap is dry, and still, I get misfires. I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but when I disassemble the cartridge afterwards, there is pressure that is left in it so unscrewing the base is harder than it should be, and I hear a pressure release, so it's like the cap ignited at 80% when being fired and another 20% when disassembling the cartridge. Additionally, alot of white powder remains are left all over the detonator pin (thankfully it is easy to remove).

So...any ideas what the problem might be? I mean I still get a shell ejecting gun and I am not worried that those misfires damage the gun since not 100% of the cap pressure is released, which means the gun is taking much less stress than it can, so that's something less to worry about (i mean, damage to internals are usually caused by too much pressure..right?)

It would be great to have these flame caps actually produce flames!!

hmm thanks for the advice, well out of around 35 flame caps I used, only about 5 ignited properly (made smoke/spark) and did not have leftover pressure, so that is alot of misfires! when I first got the gun, I didn't lube the cartridges at all in the beginning and I would get no misfires (using MGCaps). The only 2 solutions is either what you said and I should apply grease on the cap itself, which makes it all the more annoying to load a cartridge...or, make sure that no grease is between the cap and the piston, because if the piston has free movement but grease is holding it to the cap which has alot more friction, then that could be the reason for the misfires.

By the way, as much as I tried spraying silicone oil to aid lubrication of the piston, it would NOT work, the piston would remain extremely stiff in the cart, which is a sure way to ask for misfires. When I got the grease though, that actually made a big difference, but turns out there's yet another problem that prevents 100% successful ignition

Since the barrel in my gun is plastic, I'm gonna avoid doing the silicone oil trick for flame effect because I dont want to add a risk of damage, really need the gun parts flawless. In the airsoft world, parts are very easy to come by for 1911's, but model guns is a whole other thing...

Hi Frenchy
Quote:
I recently purchased flame caps and every round I fire is a misfire (not due to the caps, there can't be that many faulty caps at once). When I fire the cartridges now, the cap ignites and produces enough force to make the slide go back and eject the round but not enough to make the spark/smoke effect

It sounds like you are saying a "misfire" to you is when the rounds does everything its meant to except make smoke/ sparks?
Have i understood that correctly?

From all you have said, I would say you have the following possible problems:-
Let me know if any apply;)

1) cleaning the carts with q-tips/water is not enough on its own for marushins carts. Is the inside surface a polished smooth surface? with NO residue "matting" the surface at all, try putting some fine wire wool inside the cartridge bore and giving it a polish up with that.
2) How often are you cleaning the det pin?
Also inspect it and see if the tip has "flatted out" AT ALL any impact damage even tiny amount?
3) The 5 rounds that you were happy with, did the centre of the caps get a hole blown in them? and the one that did do...no hole?
Repeat and let us know.
4) which way round are you putting the brass "donut / piston" the correct way?

The real issue here is not misfires, but the lack of bang/smoke/effect,
Marushins are often quiet, from playing with lots it seems that the det pin profile combined with the Donut/pistons countersunk profile creates an unwanted seal that prevent the gas from being blown through the cap (blasting a hole) and passing through the piston, and passed the pin and out !!
As the gun is fired more often the cart piston and pin begin to wear to the same exact profile making the problem worse.
As an experiment turn the piston round for one shot, but close the slide slow when chambering the round.

Now as discussed on here before, I recommend NOT to use an o-ring on the piston part TRY IT
Tiny amounts of lube is all that is needed, and only on the bore really.

Hope there are some point to think about there:) let us know how it goes!

Well by misfire I mean that the cap's pressure has not blown a hole through it therefore producing smoke/sparks

1) I usually use a Q-tip on the cartridge bore and I thought that was enough, when I use an LED light to see inside it seems pretty clean, no signs of major buildup of anything
2) I only really clean the tip of the detonator pin (the part that actually hits the cap) not the base, since I feel that this part is rather irrelevant
3) The caps that did ignite correctly had a hole pierced through, while all the 'misfires' didn't, the cap just has a big dent (the remaining pressure stays in the cartridge until dismantled
Note: When a misfire occurs and pressure is left in the cartridge, if I try to re-chamber that round the slide will not let the round go all the way in the chamber, looks like the leftover pressure makes a significant difference in the cartridge's diameter!
4)This may be the key! I randomly put the piston in, the only difference I see is that one side has a slightly bigger hole than the other...now does the side with the bigger hole go back to back with the cap?

What do you mean by the piston being countersunk? I noticed that for example in wa shan cartridges, the piston has no ring, it's just a brass cylinder that moves very freely in the cartridge bore. I think it would be difficult to remove the O-ring from the piston now that it is secured in and has slight buildup on it, I do not think it can be done without damaging the ring...but basically you're saying it would definitely be better to not have one?? I'll attempt to do this on one cartridge and see the results. If it fires great everytime, then I will proceed to remove all O-rings from pistons.

Does the cap itself really need to have very free movement inside the bore? if yes, that greatly complicates the situation since even with grease it does not slide in as smoothly as one might want it to

test 1: I removed (very tedious task) the O-ring from the piston, kind of cleaned the cartridge bore with a Q-tip, applied grease to the cap (but not the piston since it already moves very freely without the O-ring), removed some cap residue from the detonator pin.....result=misfire! still, the cap was only dented but a hole was not made, therefore not all of the cap's pressure was released

hmm so from what I understand, I should not ignore any part of the cartridge as everything must be thoroughly cleaned. (even the cartridge base!) I did notice that in just a few weeks after receiving the gun and cartridges that they are not nearly as shiny as when they were new, but you said hot soapy water will fix that and do a decent job at cleaning? I do not really want to get an ultra sonic cleaner as I'm always gonna be rotating around just 15 cartridges for just one model gun and I hear they're pretty expensive too..

Also, can ALL of the cartridge parts be cleaned with the hot soap water?

cerwyn, maybe its the same problem that we have with our marushin m39's which as you know seem a waste of time firing due to the lack of sound they make but they funtion fine and as far as i can see there is no way to make the gun sound loder of produce more smoke.

claymore wrote:

cerwyn, maybe its the same problem that we have with our marushin m39's which as you know seem a waste of time firing due to the lack of sound they make but they funtion fine and as far as i can see there is no way to make the gun sound loder of produce more smoke.

Hi Claymore

It's a distinct possibility. Both our M39s produce no firing sound at all but they do cycle well. As you rightly say firing the M39 is a bit of a waste of time simply because there's no decent BANG. I haven't had time to experiment further with it either.

The main problem Frenchy's having seems to be the cap is not being punctured during firing. I have wondered whether a change to Marushin 7mm caps might help Some models, revolvers in particular but a couple of automatic pistols too seem able to blow a neat hole right through Marushin caps far easier than MG caps. It might be sheer coincidence but you never know

What do you think

I will have to fire off a couple of rounds out of my marushin 45 and see if it punches a hole in it but i doubt putting a hole in the cap will make much difffernce to smoke coming out as that hole would be practically sealed by the pin in the base i would of thought.

Back when i just got the gun I was using MGCaps and they fired great! But the same problem started to happen after a couple of days, so I'm gonna stick with cerwyn on this one and will thoroughly clean the cartridges, then will proceed again. Hopefully the cap will be punctured, and of course if it is not then that is directly related to the fact that no smoke of sparks are coming out. My goal is to achieve 100% release of cap's pressure, where right now it's about 80%. But seems like those remaining 20% are the smoke/sparks...hey at least my gun still cycles, but its so wierd because now its even quieter than an airsoft when firing, it make a plastic sound lol

Okay, but just to clarify, by detonator pin you mean the firing pin that's in the cartridge or the one that's fixed in the barrel of the gun?

Well it looks fairly rounded like new, I doubt this part could have been damaged already, but even if it did flatten a little would that really pose a problem?

And by detonator pin I always thought you guys meant the one in the cartridge that directly hits the cap!! but that part is actually called the firing pin, so then there's 2 firing pins in a model gun, and a detonator pin.

cerwyn bit of a problem testing the marushin 45 i dont have it with me in London thought i did but i dont so few weeks before i can try it out, doh!

Help! the new Marushin cartridges I just ordered do not work in the gun!! they fit, chamber, eject and all but they do not fire! I even tested a brand new one... these cartridges are a different type than the ones that came with the model gun (I really thought I was going to receive the same ones ) so I load them like I am supposed to and they do not ignite! this new type of cartridge has a stationary firing pin as opposed to the other one which moves...I REALLY hope the kind I just ordered can be used with my gun, here's a picture of both disassembled

The one with the removable firing pin block fires, the other one with the silver firing pin doesn't

Your model is a CENTRE FIRE model, meaning that the firing pin hits the centre of the cart moves the "primer " part and fires the cap.
The carts you have got are not centerfire carts, they will not work.

100% for perseverance though:) but those carts will not work.

Hi,
This is not exactly the model and brand you need, but i guess this should be like that, with a cap between the striker and the anvil (the false primer in white metal)

I appreciate the help but as you can see, my cartridge is not like that at all. There is no anvil, just a loose piston, and then the cap of course

"Your model is a CENTRE FIRE model, meaning that the firing pin hits the centre of the cart moves the "primer " part and fires the cap.
The carts you have got are not centerfire carts, they will not work."

Oh no...this is really not working out for me