MGC M16 Vietnam... Cap question

Post by Phobus

Hello everybody - first time post - Newby to these boards and to modelguns so be gentle with me
I have a few blank firers - Airsofts.
I have been frequenting the model guns site for some time & nearly bought a Beretta 93 or Ingram more than once .
However , a model gun came up on the Airgun BBS site and I bought it for 110 pounds plus a KJW pistol.
The owner says it has a metal receiver / bolt carrier / barrel and runs fine except for the fire selector which does not stay in position - he is attempting to fix this for me prior to posting .
My question is , what caps does this gun use ? He says it comes with 5 mm and 7 mm caps and 20 cartridges which sounds great but I would like to order some more caps . Where ?
He also says he has shot the gun with a 5mm cap INSIDE a 7mm cap ??? does that mean I need to get BOTH caps for these carts ?
Any advice greatfully accepted .
Regards Carl.
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Marmite enthusiast

Post by Mark

Welcome Phobus!

What is the modelgun that you bought (you didn't really identify it) It sounds like a Wa Shan "Dolphin" to me or a Marushin M712..

Most modelguns fire a 7mm cap which seems to be by far the most common. If your new acquisition is a Wa Shan it uses 7mm caps or the very hard to get disposable Wa Shan cartridges. If it is a Marushin M712, it also fires the 7mm caps. The caps can be bought from forum member Francky1958 or any of the UK dealers.

I don't recomend the use of two caps at the same time as 1. its wasteful 2. it can damage the cartridges 3. its not really needed in a properly tuned modelgun.

I have tried to use two caps before and it works. But, the cartridges can be expensive and its best not to damage them excessively as they are along with the caps, the heart of the modelgun system.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Spencerman

Welcome Phobus, I am sure your gonna like it here! Is the model that you refer to an XM177E2 or variant? As Mark has already mentioned the M712, and I understand that some people do indeed place a 5mm cap inside a 7mm cap to make these function. This is not nessessary if you properly remove all burring and other problem areas from the gun (see problem section). The fire selector swith is also probably as per the real gun, and will only function in certain settings if the gun is loaded etc (again, see problem section). I do not yet have one of these models, but do intend to despite all of the"problems" that they have. Consequently I am mentally preparing myself for the hard work ahead of me in order to make it work right, and have been reading with great interest. I also know what you mean about the Beretta 93. That is one horny gun, and again, I do not have one...yet. It is also very high up on my list, probably the prototype version.
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Post by Mark

Phobus wrote:

The owner says it has a metal receiver / bolt carrier / barrel

OOPS! I didn't put two+two together and note the bolt carrier reference like Spencerman observed...It does indeed sound like either a Marushin XM177E2/ M16A1 or, an early all zinc MGC M16 variant. The selector switch assy has a spring/detent ball that can be lost during assy that might be the selectors problem.

Post by Phobus

Thanks for that guys,

You are quick to respond on here arn,t you ? - Thank you .
Sorry , just distracted by England scoring ( again !! )

The gun is as per title of my thread an MGC M16 Vietnam era with the triangular ? forend , and the guy did mention a spring / follower missing to hold the selector in place . Looks vgc from pics , I was confused by the 2 different caps .... He says the forend lets it down cos it looks cheap but says original Armalite replacements may fit ??

Parts availability ??

Mnay thanks Guys - Carl.
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Marmite enthusiast

Post by Mark

Ah, I see that it is indeed an MGC M16. These have an unusual firing mech that works totally different than the actual AR15/M16/Marushin/later ABS MGC M16 series etc. The selector is "backwards" compared to the real AR/M16: fullauto/safe/semi instead of safe/semi/full also, the selector is held in place with a snap ring arrangement. These modelguns where intended to fire "paper" caps and they didn't use the modern modelgun cartridges that are common today.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Phobus

Thanks again for that response Mark ,

I can see there are some very well informed people on these boards .
The owner of this rifle says it takes standard MGC ( ? ) Carts and sent a pic of one loaded in the mag to prove it . Looked like a regular .223 case to me minus the bullet.

I suppose I will have to wait and see - the gun should be with me in a few days - just wait for my posts when I get the model and panic like crazy when I can,t use it !!! heheh

My first impressions having read articles on here and elsewhere about modelguns is that they are quite labour intensive and time consuming to own / use . This makes them unlike blank firers and Airsofts.

They still impress the hell out of me tho, and I havent even seen or held one yet !!


Regards Carl.
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Marmite enthusiast

Hi Phobus,
If you want to see the modelguns working, have a look at the video links on here!
The modelguns are indeed labour intensive. The main work is cleaning them as the corrosive nature of the charge and resulting smoke gets the internals dirty very quickly. Not just the gun itself, the detonator chamber and pin, magazine, and of course the cartridges.
A clean gun with clean and properly assembled cartridges works really well. It's a bloody shame though that 30 rounds can take an hour to wash, dry, clean, lube, load, reassemble, but only take 5 seconds to fire the lot through the gun! Mac11's fire 30 in a second and a half!
Once you get the knack you'll have your M16 stripped and cleaned quicker than Forest Gump did his M14!
Don't forget that if you want information on anything to get your gun working, just ask, we're here to help!
Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.