Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins

Subject: Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:58 pm

If, like me, many of you have wondered how our Japanese friends are achieving such impressive muzzle flash effects like this,

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Muzzle10

Part of the answer seems to WC-PB cartridge Pistons and Hollow Detonator Pins.

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_10

Hopefully one of our Japanese members can translate the packaging above. There's a possibility that 5mm caps are intended to be used with these? Clarification is reqd please?

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_11

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Hollow12

Detonator Pin profiles are different to allow them to pass through hole sizes in cartridge tops depending on the cartridge manufacturer. Since MGC's closure a number of small Custom shops have started making cartridges.

GM-7 system:-

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_12

Custom 9mm system

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_13

It seems to be that the WC-PC system relies on a close fit between the Hollow Det. Pin and the bored out upper part of the Piston to allow as much Flame/Flash and Noise to vent out

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_18

The bored out piston is visible here

Comparing a standard MGC piston and the WC-PB, it's clear the igniter pin is significantly shorter in the WC-PB's case

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_16

One Japanese blog reports that a standard 7mm MG cap will not allow the pin to strike the charge, as shown here

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_14

the solution is to trim the caps' edges down to create enough clearance

Muzzle Flash - WC-PB Piston & Hollow Det.Pins Wc-pb_15

More research needs to be to get all the answers but at least we now know that the Det.Pins and Cartridge Pistons need swapping over to the WC-PB type.

Some Flash / Prop or Magnesium powder is more than likely added to create such a long and bright flame effect.

I'll update when I find out some more

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.

Well done mate and where the hell did you get this info and pics? This explains a lot especially how they get so much flash out of mp40's etc. Never ever seen these on yahoo or any other site though.

What a great info you got us!

It's refreshing to see people pick up modelgun development and keeping hobby alive!

There are several Japanese blogs online that are Modelgun related. I've found them by following up on Japanese enthusiasts that post videos on Youtube.
With any luck, shazhib may be able to find us some WC-PB Pistons and suitable Det.Pins. It's very likely we could have Det.Pins made here once we have a Piston to determine inner and outer diameters.

Next step will be coming up with a good Flash Powder !

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.

You would think that we could get proper flash powder over here no problem with our heritage in theatre and all the special effects they do for films over here, but to be honest i dont even know what we would use apart from magnesium, do we know what they use in japan? What about flour! sounds stupid i know and i am joking but have you seen what happens when you set light to a fine mist of it, practically explodes!! so maybe not a good choice for plastic guns.

claymore wrote:: You would think that we could get proper flash powder over here no problem with our heritage in theatre and all the special effects they do for films over here, but to be honest i dont even know what we would use apart from magnesium, do we know what they use in japan? What about flour! sounds stupid i know and i am joking but have you seen what happens when you set light to a fine mist of it, practically explodes!! so maybe not a good choice for plastic guns.

Magnesium powder does work for certain, but not always in my experience. The shorter the barrel the better results. Pistols are perfect for Mg, but I've yet to see any Flash from an MP40 or Stirling barrel.
Those Japanese I've asked are VERY secretive about what they use unfortunately. One did tell me that he uses a mix including Strontium Nitrate which is commonly found in Distress Flares carried in all Japanese cars. It produces a Red flame when set alight.
An advantage of Strontium Nitrate is that it has good oxidising properties. Magnesium needs the extra oxygen to burn hot enough so it's still a bright flame or flash as it exits the muzzle.
The serious concerns are that any Powder mix contained within a sealed cartridge could expand so fast when lit that it does explode ... something NOT to be taken lightly as serious injury and broken modelguns could be the result.
Red Flash powder is available freely on ebay over here.

I would like to try these WC-PB pistons with a suitable Det.Pin in an SMG like MP40 or Stirling. Using Mg powder initially. It's vital that the Mg powder stays dry and in fine powder state if it's to burn quick enough to produce Flash. If it gets contaminated with oils or grease it won't light up.

_________________
Cerwyn

Hobby collector of Replica model guns and Militaria.
also member of Living History Reenactment Groups.

Very interesting following this thread, and the Japanese and their technology always impresses the hell out out of me. When you watch action movies made in the last decade or so the flash flame effects do seem to be getting larger and larger.

Cerwyn wrote:

claymore wrote:: You would think that we could get proper flash powder over here no problem with our heritage in theatre and all the special effects they do for films over here, but to be honest i dont even know what we would use apart from magnesium, do we know what they use in japan? What about flour! sounds stupid i know and i am joking but have you seen what happens when you set light to a fine mist of it, practically explodes!! so maybe not a good choice for plastic guns.

Magnesium powder does work for certain, but not always in my experience. The shorter the barrel the better results. Pistols are perfect for Mg, but I've yet to see any Flash from an MP40 or Stirling barrel.
Those Japanese I've asked are VERY secretive about what they use unfortunately. One did tell me that he uses a mix including Strontium Nitrate which is commonly found in Distress Flares carried in all Japanese cars. It produces a Red flame when set alight.
An advantage of Strontium Nitrate is that it has good oxidising properties. Magnesium needs the extra oxygen to burn hot enough so it's still a bright flame or flash as it exits the muzzle.
The serious concerns are that any Powder mix contained within a sealed cartridge could expand so fast when lit that it does explode ... something NOT to be taken lightly as serious injury and broken modelguns could be the result.
Red Flash powder is available freely on ebay over here.

I would like to try these WC-PB pistons with a suitable Det.Pin in an SMG like MP40 or Stirling. Using Mg powder initially. It's vital that the Mg powder stays dry and in fine powder state if it's to burn quick enough to produce Flash. If it gets contaminated with oils or grease it won't light up.

https://youtu.be/rKnI-ZNNL2A

I am quite impressed with the star like muzzleflashes from the m4 in full auto in this video. If I could buy one that fires like that I'd go for it no matter what they cost. This is exactly the effect I have been waiting for all those years.

» CAW M11 - muzzle flash
» MUZZLE FLASH
» For those who want big muzzle flash effects
» MGC M9 Muzzle flash
» Muzzle flash effects with ZEKE inner pistons.