Bad news for modelguns in Britain!!

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Replica guns to be banned

Alan Travis, home affairs editor
Monday June 6, 2005
The Guardian

The government is to announce this week that it will press ahead with a ban on the manufacture, import and sale of "realistic" replica and imitation guns a year after the Home Office said a blanket ban was unworkable and impractical.
The ban will not be as wide-ranging as gun control campaigners had been pressing for but it will be accompanied by a measure making it illegal for anybody under the age of 18 to buy any kind of imitation or replica firearm.

The violent crime reduction bill, to be published on Wednesday, will also include an aggravated offence of using children or otherwise innocent parties to hide or carry guns or knives.
Ministers appeared to rule out a ban on imitation weapons a year ago because of the difficulty of coming up with a precise legal definition of a replica. But senior civil servants have managed to circumvent the problem to ensure that the crackdown does not include toy guns and water pistols in a wholesale blanket ban.

The bill will make clear that the ban on the sale of replicas only covers imitation guns that "any reasonable person could mistake for a firearm".

The ban will also be crafted to ensure it applies to sales over the internet and by mail order.

Ministers have included a number of exemptions in the legislation including the "theatrical use of imitation firearms". They have heard representations from television and film companies who feared the ban could hit the production of police and crime dramas.

The ban is being introduced after the latest gun crime figures showed that the use of imitation weapons rose by 66% in the last year and is fuelling a 10% increase in all gun crime. Ministers are particularly worried about BB or ball-bearing guns that fire plastic pellets.

At the same time the use of real handguns fell by 13% in the last year.

At present, it is illegal to carry an imitation weapon or an air gun in a public place without a reasonable excuse and to sell replica weapons that can be converted into firing live ammunition.

It is expected that this week's legislation will increase the sentences for carrying replica guns and introduce tougher standards on manufacturers to ensure that replica weapons cannot be converted to fire live ammunition. The bill will also raise the age limit for buying knives to 18 and tighten the law on air guns.

Headteachers will also be given the legal right to search pupils for knives or guns and "at-risk" pubs and clubs will be required to search for them.

The legislation will also implement the government's crackdown on drink-related violence.

Get them while you still can!

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

Not much the 2nd reading has gone through its to commitee stage then and then maybe the house of lords, i get lost with all the stages a bill has to go through i am afraid.

Some are saying it will be passed in Sep,others not till next yr, no one really knows at the moment.

Lots of letters to MP's have gone out with a lot of positive replys, there are many things about the bill that many MP's do not agree with.

But at the moment no one knows much more, airsofters seem to think they may get an exemption, but at the end of the day the goverment has and still is determined to get guns out of the hands of the law abiding people of this country.

We just have to wait and see and continue to keep talking to our MP's to convince this is wrong.

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Man, that still sounds really bad for you guys! Yes, i sounds like they are on the path to a "gun free utopia" in Britain which like communism, is doomed to failure in the long run..



Updates anyone?

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

Nothing at the moment it goes to committe stage in Oct everyone thinks that Nov will be the date when anything is implemented. Everything is rumour at the moment, some MP's agree with us others have the normal ill informed view of firearms and us WIERDOS!!! who want to collect them.

The airsoft community seem to beleive they will get an exemption, dont know how that would be able to happen but fingers crossed. Lots of police officers now writing into the forums who dont agree with the bill. Amazing really that governments who are supposed to be there for the people dont listen to the ones dealing with this supposed problem when they have thier own agenda.

Even more suprising is this bill is supposed to reduce violent crime yet they are now proposing to amend the drinking law and extend the time that you can dring to in pubs and clubs. Its 12pm at the moment and they are looking at extending that to about 2am. There is a big problem with alcohol related crime especially violence and now they want to give them another 2 hrs of drinking time.

So go figure, gun related crime/violence with a replica firearm SMALL, crime and violence due to alcohol LARGE so it makes sense to ban the replica but increase the drinking time. I have to ask do politicians actually have a brain.

I am afraid we are battling against the normal attitude towards anything with the word gun in it. Your last piece on the forum about the attitude towards firearms said it alll Mark and i agree with what you said. Looking at the people who have been chose for the committe i dont hold mush hope for us as it seems to be made up of those who hate firearms and the ill informed but then no suprise there.

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Thanks claymore! It's sad that the politicians feel that they need a segment of the population to have as the "scape goat" to blame all of society's ill's on..If you don't have enough criminals create some more....Nothings more sad than an unemployed politican that has to work for the first time in their lives!

*** Originally posted by mark ***

I just saw this a few minutes ago on: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/opinion/viewarticle.aspx?id=275344




Tackle criminals not objects

Published on 24/08/2005
Spot the difference: Which is the real gun? But Mr Richardson says a ban on imitation guns will fail
Spot the difference: Which is the real gun? But Mr Richardson says a ban on imitation guns will fail

I WAS disappointed to read your one-sided article “MP allays fears over tough gun law”, (News & Star, August 19).

Mr Cunningham is said to have reassured enthusiasts, yet there were apparently no “reassured enthusiasts” interviewed. Nor was there any comment from representative bodies such as The Sportsman’s Association or Save Airsoft. Yet you included a statement from Gill Marshall-Andrews of the Gun Control Network.

Mrs Marshall-Andrews tells us that “no-one needs a realistic imitation gun”. So what? There are many things people have that they do not “need” and a great deal of them are more dangerous than an imitation gun incapable of harming someone unless you were to hit them with it.

This ban is just another example of government punishing law abiding people for the actions of a criminal element of society. It is already an offence to use an imitation firearm to cause fear.

I expect the ban will be just as succesful as the handgun ban in 1997 which was closely followed by an explosion in gun crime.

When will the Government realise that it must tackle criminals not ownership of objects?

I shall not hold my breath.

Mark Richardson

Great Broughton

Cockermouth

*** Originally posted by gmanuk ***

i hate our goverment i think punnishing law abiding citizens is a....... well i cant say bout it it angers me to even think bout it

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

There have been a few articles that have been on our side and that one is another good example, unfortunatly there are a hundred more papers totally against us.
So many people talking about converting a plastic gun into a lethal weapon, do these people actually have an education or do you need to be a dr of physics to understand plastic is not very stong and will blow up in your face.
Listen to parliament any day of the week and they sound like children in the play ground, and they run the country, god help us!!

The committee has been made up of paty liners yes men and total dimwits, not one of them has got there facts right not just on guns but on crime in general and they will dictate to us right and wrong yet again, we really do need to pester our MP's, they are supposed to be working for us but in the 21st century they work for themselves and what is good for them. Recently another article by anti gun people said we should be happy to give up our guns so as to prevent all these killing and crime. Tell me would they give up thier cars as easily seeing as cars cause more deaths per yr than any gun.
These are the people the government wants to please and they have a louder voice than us.

My background is military police my wife is in the Met, we and all our friends in the job think this bill is %$£^ but when were the people who deal with the problem ever asked how to sort it out.

A lot of what mark has stated is correct and this bill will fail.

Just 1 more thing of interest, now that we have the olympics and in them will be target shooting, tell me how do we allow all these countrys to bring in illegal guns when the people of this country are banned from using them

*** Originally posted by mark ***

Quote :

Recently another article by anti gun people said we should be happy to give up our guns so as to prevent all these killing and crime. Tell me would they give up thier cars as easily seeing as cars cause more deaths per yr than any gun.

Ah, the goofy anti gun favorite line, like: you should get another hobby instead of guns.. or, you should give up guns because they are dangerous! Think of the children etc. These people are working off of carefully written anti-gun script that is written by firearms un-educated people who feel that gun control is a noble cause and they truly believe that a gun free utopia will work and is actually achievable They will ignore all of the facts that gun control is a scam because fact outweighs their opinion every time..

The car statement is true, in fact, it's like my argument with the environmentalists that drive old polluting cars and wear factory produced clothing and fly to their anti-pollution rallies across the country...These people are hypocrites at best and liars at the worst just like the anti-guners as they purposely lie to mislead people into believing their crooked story's about subjects that they know very little about.

You can't control people...They must like the conditions that they exist in for them to be happy and adjusted.If the conditions are nice they will adjust well and not prey on their neighbors. only this will cut down on crime but, it won't eliminate it...And it's the same for murder.

Firearms are not mystical, hard to figure out alien weapons that have to be made in elaborate factories, they are make them in your garage or basement items..So, even if the anti-guners where successful in banning all firearms etc. Firearms will still be available to who ever want's them..


Gun control is for mis-lead people, loosers,idiots,criminals and dictators!

*** Originally posted by doc ***

This is really aimed at UK collectors.

The VCR bill has finished its discussions, it has now one more stage before it goes to the House of Lords. (no time scale on this yet)

As it appears at present the Law will make it illegal to personally import replica guns.
The only people allowed to import replicas will be museums , TV / Theatre productions and re-enactors.(and exemptions for dealers who supply the above) Also the emphasis will be on you to prove you are one of the above or you are in the SH**.

No chance of proving you work for a museum (unless you do ) same goes for TV /Theatre productions and if you are a re-enactor not only will you need loads of expensive kit but you will have to actually be out running about in fields. (which I already do)

This looks about as bad as it could as there has been no provision made for just "collectors"

*** Originally posted by madmike ***

Thank you for this information. It really seems that pure collectors are facing a dark future in the UK. I expect a great impetus for all collectors in Europe if shops like modelguns.co.uk or modelguncollector.co.uk quit selling modelguns.

Greetings from Germany

MadMike

*** Originally posted by ldr ***

Can anyone let me know whats happening with this? Is it now illegal to buy model/airsoft guns from other countires? Its just i ordered a BB shotgun....is this now likely to be confiscated?

Lewis

*** Originally posted by helfire ***

Hi Lewis,

Dont worry! you will get your BB gun,
the VCR bill has been agreed but has not yet been passed in the commons,
but it's only the matter of time before they fix a date when we can no longer import any replica firearms or buy from uk dealers,
the replicas we already own wont be affected at all.......well for the time being,
so if there are any items you want, get them before they stop selling them.
Hope this has put your mind at ease?

Andy

*** Originally posted by ldr ***

Thanks Andy, thats a relief!

Sounds like now is the time to buy then.

*** Originally posted by doc ***

If you become a re-enactor then I expect that to give you a certain exemption to get WW2 or Vietnam era stuff, However you will have to buy a lot of equipment/kit and turn up to events to justify your purchase.

*** Originally posted by helfire ***

Hi,

I was just wondering if when the VCR bill comes into action will we be able to sell items in private sales to each other?

Thanks...Helfire

*** Originally posted by illuminati ***

Yea, as long as the old bill dont find out we'll have to meet on streetcorners in big long jackets and balaclava's on, im well kitted out, ill go get my flasher coat.

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

Yes a forum like this where we can swap!!! our models might be a bit of a saviour when doomsday arrives

*** Originally posted by helfire ***

Hi Claymore,

Yes, the term "swap" maybe a loophole in the law to allow us to carry on with our hobby,
after all we are not selling/buying if we do swaps!....any swaps for 2 sheep and a cow?

Helfire

*** Originally posted by fendy ***

What a load of crap! The Uk is messed up on so many levels for banning model guns. PARANOID! Just glad we fought a revolution and we have the "Right to Bear Arms" here in the good ol U.S.A., God bless America, home of the free!

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

Well fendy i will agree that this country is messed up in a lot of ways, but the states is not so free and not so safe mate. There is plans afoot in some states to ban airsoft guns and from state to state your gun laws chop and change from very restrictive to anything goes, your antigun lobbys are not weak in the US and every time you get another massacre where guns are used they get stronger. So dont think this cannot happen to you.
The advantage over the Uk that you have is that guns have been a part of your culture and accepted by the majority of people, over here that is not the case most look at guns as evil and so hence our problem.

*** Originally posted by claymore ***

You make some good points, I don't have anything against the UK personally. I'm just glad we can still buy guns here, I wouldn't trust any government that wouldn't allow me to own a gun and just trust them with my family's safety. Crime is in ALL countrys, and we deserve the right to protect our own.

*** Originally posted by ljerr2 ***

I live in the US and I don't think we'd be too far behind GB if their law passes. Heck, look at the restrictions they already put on us who try to collect. Customs can take them if you have trademarks or especially if you don't have that ridiculous blaze orange tip. What's to stop the criminals from painting their REAL guns with an orange tip?
Most non-lethal weapons are now clear if they are manufactured over here or at least painfully obvious that they are not real - by design or shape, etc. I'm buying what I can now just in case. Remeber the AWB about 10 years ago and its subsequent sunset? I don't think it'll be long before it comes back.........I hope not, but it got passed before.