Beretta M12s

****Originally posted by claymore****




I am a big fan of the MGC 12s modelgun, dont know why there is just something about it that appeals.
i bought one about 2 months ago and it did not work so i sent it back and the recoil spring was replaced that cured the problem (oh! which was it would not detonate the round by the way) however it still does not fire a full mag off without a jam. So anyone got any tips on how to get it firing better.

Now i have not put this in the problems section as it does work but another reason is that i have just come back from Rome and to my suprise the carabinieri were carrying them, now i thought the m12 was an old gun no longer produced or used, obviously i was wrong. i really wanted to have a chat about the gun with them but my italian consists of hello,goodbye and beer an vino gratzie.

Anyway mark did you know this was a model still in use and as it is why dont MGC still make it.

****Originally posted by mark****




Hi claymore!

It's good to see that you are back!

Yes, must I like the M12, as I have two of them! and yes, they do tend to have some appeal to me although, I do still think that they are slightly ugly ..

Are you using the original CP cartridges with the old pistons? or are you using some other cartridges?

If, you are still using the old pistons with the old-fired-cap as the seal, take some newer late model pistons with the O-ring and replace the old type piston with them that should help some.

The cartridge ramp on the barrel is a big problem as well as the built-in detonator as the barrel ramp can disintegrate after constant firing and the detonator can wear out and since it is part of the barrel as well as the ramp, this fact can cause problems ..

So, you might check the ramp and the detonator for wear .. Also, as the main parts like the bolt are mostly ABS, the M12 is lubricant sensitive so a reduction in friction would help.

Another thing, the bolt has some mass and it can accelerate quickly and if the ramp isn't perfect, the round can be forced the wrong way causing a jam.

I don't fire my M12's very much as I haven't had the time to fully investigate the problems that this model has so, I have to guess at some of the problems.

Well, as for the M12 being used by the carabinieri, I think that the M12 is officially obsolete in the Italian army and only the police forces are issued them at this moment, and I think they might be held in reserve but, I don't know .. However, I have seen allot of Beretta M12 "parts kits" for sale in the U.S. in the last few years I think that perhaps the Italian Government is selling the remaining stocks of the M12's into the surplus markets.

The reason that MGC isn't making the M12 still is unknown at this moment and it is slightly doubtful that they will re-produce them again .. But, you never know!

****Originally posted by madmike****




Hello claymore! Nice to have you back from honeymoon.

I have a friend who is a police officer in Germany. He told me he had the possibility to testfire a M12 during training two years ago. He says it is a very handy and easy to control SMG with high magazine capacity, but its rate of fire and accuracy are lower than that of the HK MP5, which is used by the German Police.

He thinks that the M12 still is very popular with the Italian Police for guards. Special response units seem to use the HK MP5 now.

Sorry that I can´t give you more information.

Greetings

MadMike

****Originally posted by claymore****




Cheers for that madmike, i was just suprised to see it being used as i thought most forces had gone over to the mp5.

Hi Mark, yeah the inner bits on the M12 are a bit thin and it does worry me that they will break if i use it to much. I was suprised to find that the barrel pin was locked in so well making cleaning harder.
Are you talking about new rounds for the M12 or putting pistons from another round in the M12 case, it is the old style round i have with the used cap as a seal.

****Originally posted by mark****




Hi claymore,

I was saying that if you are using the older cartridge that has the piston that uses the fired cap as the seal, those pistons are very unrelieable as the old cap tends to rupture and lets the gas pressure escape and therefore no blow back action. Now, if you take the pistons with the O-rings from your MGC Thompson and put them in the M12 cartridges, the gas pressures in the cartridges will be higher and the action will work better.

****Originally posted by claymore****




Cheers for that mark. never thought of trying other pistons in the rounds i will give them a go, still a bit worried about the thinness of plastic in the breach but will just have to deal with it.
Thanks again for the info.

****Originally posted by claymore****




Tried the 45 pistons in the m12, they worked great. Thanks for the tip mark, got any tips on giving it a good clean as without taking it apart completly it's a bit difficult getting into the nucks and crannies.

****Originally posted by mark****




Hi claymore,

The later O-ring pistons do make a differance don't they? As for cleaning the M12 without taking it apart, just don't shoot it!

No, seriously, the M12 as you have discovered, has all sorts of nooks and crannies to clean and unless you have access to an rather large ultra-sonic cleaner that you can put the whole M12 in to clean, you unfortunately have to take it all apart.

You might try your luck and leave it all together and spray some silicone oil into the breech and the ejection port, this might stop the rust and some of the corrosion.


But, in the long run, you will have to take it apart and deal with the corrosion "build-up" on the detonator when it gets bad enough to effect firing...

****Originally posted by claymore****




Shooting is the trouble i am afraid because these guns do break and cleaning well some are more trouble than the others, but as you say more fun more trouble and these guns are alot of fun. and not shooting them, well thats just not an option

Hi All, I recently bought an M12s. I was surprised by how ABS-y it is at first, but it has really grown on me. It cycles well but I couldn’t get it to fire (old cap-sealed carts). I was getting light dents in the caps but that was all. After discussing with Jay, and reading this post, I put a small block behind the return spring, and stretched the spring as well. I also bought some commercial rubber o-rings - 7mm outer circumference, 3mm inner. 2.5mm inner would be better but a touch of grease makes sure they don’t slip off the cart pin. Lots of oil everywhere and now it shoots perfectly. It just goes to show the value of old content on here - thanks!

Thanks for the tip Cerwyn!