MP5... PFC Project

Post by Mark

Jay, i really don't see how it would affect the forum in any way shape or form to have this "build it your self" modelgun thread..I like it just the way that it is . However, if you don't feel 100% good about this thread i can delete it..It's up to you..
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by garyforce

hey jay

Quote :

i dont want to cause any friction towards the forum.

thats not my concern
hell i agree with mark what your doing and how is impressive and interesting
my worry is if "someone" where to look into things and end up knocking on your door ! :? ...... odds of that slim to nil ..... but just feel you should be aware (as you are ) of that slim chance !
after all ....... you and i have already had our run in with the law over the thompson ! ..... im just concerned that if the powers that be wanted to be .... they could be very arsey with you ! .so just be sure when your manufacturing ANY bits and bobs for the internal workings it doesnt come CLOSE to breaching the firearms act in anyway ! :? if they can read something as being in breech of it.......they will !

Post by Claymore

Jay, this is always a grey area in the UK, dont delete the post i dont see a problem with it. The firearms act is a nightmare and at times can mean whatever you want it to mean. My wife is a police officer and i have been looking through some of her books for firearms law. I am still trawling at the moment so i wont list anything but consider the following

First you have to consider what a firearm is regarded as, i dont see how what you are doing can be regarded as a firearm, ( as it does not fire a projectile).

You are not adapting a firarm or converting one (as it never was a firearm) that leaves making into a firearm. Gary is concerned with the bolt i think and if anything that will be your problem area, if the bolt was made so that it was capable of firing a real round that could cause problems (strong enough material and the firing pin) even if the round had no barrel to go down, a way around that is not to have a firing pin.

I am not going to go on too long as i am still looking up facts and it will take a while i will also try to make some discrete enquires, however even firearms officers get confused on this subject.

I would carry on with the project, however as much as you would like to get the gun to funtion exactly like an MP5 i think you would be safer making the bolt less accuratly and more along the modelgun lines. At the end of the day as long as it looks like an MP5 and fires well does it matter that the bolt is not totally accurate.

One more thing DO NOT use any real gun parts, trigger assembly etc sights and grips fine but nothing mechanical as that would fall under the made adapted converted rule.

Post by jay851

thanks for the imput guys,i am happy with the thread and would like to keep it going.i was trying to steer clear of a firing pin method and thats the way i'll go,and if i end up with full auto only or semi auto only it will still be a pfc mp5 just dont fancy getting nicked in the process.

cheers guys
jay
_________________
currently own:
hudson m3a1 greasegun
mgc early type open barrel thompson smg
kokusai s&w military/police 4" bull barrel

Post by Mark

ay,

As far as the bolt and the firing pin goes, why not make a bolt/firing pin assy? (I.E. like the MGC M16's assembly) A bolt/firing pin is a bolt head that is mounted into the bolt carrier that is able to move back and forth as it is mounted on a pin and slot arrangement, with an O-ring/spring loaded ball for tension and return purposes.

With the bolt head not having a "true" firing pin (or a provision of a hole for a firing pins use) you should not have any problems. Just try to copy the Japanese modelguns safety mods as close as you can and always use fairly soft materials in your construction of the barrel etc.

The ATFE (Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Explosives) is our governments firearms regulatory branch and i too have to be careful on my projects and steer clear of "crossing the line" as intent can be read into anything no matter how innocent the reasons are for making these projects are.
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Post by Commando

You could try going to H&K's website or ask them for the prints. If your working blind and you seem to be, try them because it might give you an idea for the cocking handle, for it to fire closed bolt is simple, make sure the cocking handle is not joined to the breach block(bolt).Be careful with recoil rod assembly, you could try ordering some from H&K as to make it a lot easier for you?

Post by jay851

hi commando....welcome to the forum.
as stated in the earlier posts,i'm trying to avoid anything that the law would not be happy with,so i guess ordering genuine hk parts is a definate no no.i do like the idea of a floating bolt which mark mentioned though,has anyone got any diagrams of this so i can get a rough idea.

cheers
jay
_________________
currently own:
hudson m3a1 greasegun
mgc early type open barrel thompson smg
kokusai s&w military/police 4" bull barrel

Post by Mark

Hi Commando,

Welcome to the forums! This project must not use any real MP5 components in it's manufacture. Otherwise, Jay could get into some severe trouble fast! So, it's really not a good idea to use the real parts! Now, making a modelgun replica of the real MP5 parts out from scratch out of "soft" zinc, ABS and aluminum is the best way to avoid an unfortunate visit from the authorites...Besides, part of the fun is making the parts from scratch without using real parts other than the magazine and some of the accessories for the MP5.

Jay, I will try to make a quick sketch of the floating bolt assy and post the drawing...
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Mark


Ok, the illustration is somewhat crude and is definately not my best effort. But, i think that the picture will get the point across. I might make some better detail drawings later. Anyway, the bolt head is a single piece of aluminum that "floats" inside the carrier. The O-ring and ball bering/springs supply the necessary friction to ensure that the bolt remains in the rear position until the hammer hits it. After the hammer hits the bolt heads shaft it is then driven forward and hits the cartridges bottom and drives it into the detonator. The expanding gasses in the cartridge drive against the bolt head and resets the bolt head to the rear.


_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Last edited by mark on Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post by Commando
It's true, but what I meant was to maybe buy some and get an exact idea, not as much use them but build around them your own kit. BTW, for the firearm MP5 the cocking handle is wedged in and welded so as you cant take it out again. If you got the facilities which I'm convinced you do, then go for it mate! I'm very interested in the outcome hopefully it will be sweet.

Post by Commando



Hopefully this will give you the idea for the cocking assembly, to be honest it looks dead simple!!! Btw, I was refering to the earliest model of MP5 about the cocking handle being wedged in, as of 1968 product line.


below is the firing pin spring.

Post by jay851

hi
got a few more bits made.



trigger used from a jac mp5 with a bit added to replicate the real one.



trigger housing with hole marked for selector lever.



aluminium floating bolt in place,still needs finishing.



trigger again.


a view of the loaded mag through the ejection port.

jay
_________________
currently own:
hudson m3a1 greasegun
mgc early type open barrel thompson smg
kokusai s&w military/police 4" bull barrel

Post by jay851

cheers claymore
just hope the thing works when its all done,and dont end up being one big grenade

jay
_________________
currently own:
hudson m3a1 greasegun
mgc early type open barrel thompson smg
kokusai s&w military/police 4" bull barrel

Post by Mark

Lookin awesome Jay! Keep up the great work! I rather doubt that any explosions will occur except perhaps the engineers minds at MGC who might see this somehow..I feel that MGC missed the boat on the MP5 modelgun i think that it would have sold extremely well especially in 1994 just before the went bankrupt..I can't see how your MP5 modelgun would not work after it's finished it's looking very nice to me!
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by jay851

thanks mark.....yeah, it puzzles me how none of the major manufacturers did not get onto the mp5,i'm sure it would have been a top seller.
any progress on you project.

jay
_________________
currently own:
hudson m3a1 greasegun
mgc early type open barrel thompson smg
kokusai s&w military/police 4" bull barrel

Post by Mark

Jay, i am very busy at work and i really only have had time to buy the tooling for the MP5 project and finish up the detail drawings. Also, since looking at your awesome MP5 i am thinking of changing over to a zinc MP5 PDW body (if they exist) as my ABS Marui body is too flimsy and lite to use.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Last edited by mark on Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Post by jay851

mark, i may be wrong,but is'nt the pdw a variant of the mp5k. if so,classic army do a metal body for the mp5k.




jay
_________________
currently own:
hudson m3a1 greasegun
mgc early type open barrel thompson smg
kokusai s&w military/police 4" bull barrel

Post by Mark

Cool! that is exactly what i am looking for Jay! I will order it tonight! Thanks! I should be in a better position to work on the MP project in a few days when work setteles down a bit and i have the zinc receiver in hand!
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms