Who knows the Japanese Modelgun History?

Post by banjoe

Ref also:- https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-general-discussion-f1/more-modelgun-history-please-t764.htm


I would like to understand the history of the modelgun industry in Japan. Could someone give me a brief history. I have always suspected Marushin somehow came from MGC. Maybe ex employees? HOw did Nakata fit in? Etc..

Post by Mark

Good question, I too would like to read some more about the history of the modelgun hobby. No doubt that some Marushin employees did come from MGC etc. Supposedly, all modelgun internal designs (cartridges etc.) where developed by one person. The first modelguns first appeared in the 1950's era. these where not much to look at and they merely resembled western cap guns. The modern modelguns started to appear sometime in the late 1960's from MGC these looked good and had moveable actions etc compared to the earlier somewhat un-realistic replica guns.

There is alot more to this hobby than I can probably write about (let alone translate)
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Phobus

Did the Japanese Model Gun obsession develop from oppressive gun laws following World War 2 ??
I read that Japan had ( has ) some of the strictest gun laws in the World - a subject which I have always found very interesting in itself .
Probably because of the ever increasing gun law here in the UK and eleswhere in the world - even the US .
I find it ironic that here in the UK with the proposed VCR Bill, we are likely to lose replicas , Airsofts ,blank firers , model guns ( ? ) BEFORE we lose access - albeit limited and strictly licensed - to REAL FIREARMS . An interesting contrast to what happened in Japan :?
Where will it all end ?
Carl.

Post by Doc

Tanio Kobayashi used to import toy gun models from the US and he always wanted to convert them to make them more realistic . During the 1960s they decided to make their own .
He worked as part of MGC from the Start
Early models with "Tanio action" were the mechanically operated models like the MGC PPK and P.38 .
The Steel MGC M3 Grease gun is also mechanical and a fascinating piece .
(circa 1966)
He was involved with the design of many of MGC Classic weapons .

Traditional Blank cartridges are not allowed in Japan hence the cap design .

He`s still going but no longer making modelguns although you will recognise the name from the VP70 gas blowback pistol he designed.

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Jez_JRP

Phobus wrote:

Did the Japanese Model Gun obsession develop from oppressive gun laws following World War 2 ??
I read that Japan had ( has ) some of the strictest gun laws in the World - a subject which I have always found very interesting in itself .
Probably because of the ever increasing gun law here in the UK and eleswhere in the world - even the US .
I find it ironic that here in the UK with the proposed VCR Bill, we are likely to lose replicas , Airsofts ,blank firers , model guns ( ? ) BEFORE we lose access - albeit limited and strictly licensed - to REAL FIREARMS . An interesting contrast to what happened in Japan :?
Where will it all end ?
Carl.

It won't end The public are stupid and as long as "something" is being done to protect their safety, they'll go along with it.
The VCR bill only increases your chances of being assaulted with a weapon that can actually kill you. People will always want to hurt other people, so they'll just pick the most readily available thing to do it with. I just don't quite follow their logic... isn't the law supposed to turn criminals into honest men, not the other way around?

Post by Mark

Doc wrote:

Tanio Kobayashi used to import toy gun models from the US and he always wanted to convert them to make them more realistic . During the 1960s they decided to make their own .
He worked as part of MGC from the Start
Early models with "Tanio action" were the mechanically operated models like the MGC PPK and P.38 .
The Steel MGC M3 Grease gun is also mechanical and a fascinating piece .
(circa 1966)
He was involved with the design of many of MGC Classic weapons .
Traditional Blank cartridges are not allowed in Japan hence the cap design .
He`s still going but no longer making modelguns although you will recognise the name from the VP70 gas blowback pistol he designed.
DOC

Thanks for the information Doc! Tanio Kobayashi San is indeed, the father of the modelgun and we are indebted to him.
The Japanese fascination and prohibition of firearms started many years before WW2. Oppressive gunlaws tend to increase firearms interest as well as fascination. Modelguns started out quite crudely and evolved over the years some of the older modelguns actually fired a small (plastic??) bullet using the caps to propel them. The production of these of course, where very short lived .
This is a fascinating subject and I wish that I could get the full and documented story on these "modelguns" However, that would entail lots of translating and searching to get the complete story. I have seen small smatterings of the modelgun story on some Japanese modelgun sites but even their history is un-complete.

Post by lampwick

The earliest mention of Model Guns that I ever saw was in an obscure gun magazine from the US which I bought when I was in the Navy back in the late 50's. The article was all about NAKATA and how he had served in the Imperial Japanese Army in Manchuria and was a trained armourer without a job when he was repatriated to Japan. This was how he got the idea of making realistic copies of firearms for the toy trade in Tokyo. 10 years ago I could have probably transcribed the entire article but now this is all that I can remember. There is a guy called John Wiffen who advertises in Gun Mart who may have got the article from me at one stage as I swapped a lot of guns and stuff with him in the late 80's. He may have a lot of info. as he's still dealing.

Post by Mark

Thanks for the further information on the modelgun hobby Lampwick! I would love to see more information on this unique Japanese hobby. The history of the hobby is fascinating and there is alot to discuss on the subject.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by shazhib

I don't know how much I can contribute, but let me post as far as I know. At the very initial stage of model gun industry, MGC imported some toy guns from US (mainly made by "Mattel", am I spelling right?). MGC dyed those toy guns in black, and wholesale to other makers like CMC, Kokusai or others. But there was a bit of dispute between MGC and other companies, the others decide to start up their own product lines. The others were like CMC (Colt Models Company), Hudson, Kokusai and Marushin. CMC was known as best realistic mechanism maker (not so as firing), tried to replicate as real as possible. Hudson was/is know as unique model maker (also known for bad firing) as you can see Hudson picked lot of east european models. Marushin started up their comapy as general die-cast manufacturer, start making model guns under some support by Mr. Mutobe (deceased : a legendary model gun designer). MGC going their own way, they weighted their effort to produce good firing model rather than model having realistic mechanism. In a past, CMC fans usually pick up how MGC models were unrealistic. One of MGC's success back in late 70's was mainly by another model gun design legend, Mr. Tazo Kobayashi. In an early stage, Kokusai was known as "making copy of MGC" maker. But in early 80's, they released very good revolver lines and soon after won a "Kokusai of revolver" reputation. Tanaka used to be a wood work maker, did make a wooden stock for CMC models so that having a strong relationship with CMC, always wanted to be a model gun maker. Mini-14 was Tanaka's first model, but sold under CMC brand. This is why Tanaka inherited lot of ex-CMC cast when CMC went out of business. KSC used to undertake some of MGC model production, become a stand alone brand when MGC went out of business. Hartford or Craft Apple Works used to be a just one of toy gun shop, become a maker. Currently, only Marushin, Hudson, KSC, Hartford, CAW and Tanaka are active one. My explanation maybe going back and forth, hope you could pick up some of history from this.

Post by Mark

Wow! Thanks for the further modelgun history lesson shazhib! Yes, you spelled Mattel correctly. The Mattel guns where simply OK as they looked like a gun but, the definately wheren't detailed.

There is alot to learn about the modelguns history and it seems that it isn't an easily discovered history. It seems that the competition between the manufacturers is fairly strong as they competed for more than just the market share. They competed for the proper trademarks like Beretta, Colt Smith&Wesson etc. and it seems that WA (WesternArms) ended up with the Beretta and the Walther trademarks license(s) which they then license out to the other manufacturers.

Marushin had alot of problems with the trademark issue I.E. "WALTHEP" etc. stampings on the slides. Perhaps they didn't want to pay WA to use the trademarks?

Thanks again for the new information!
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Mark


The AGC modelguns have interested me too. I am under the impression that Marushin has been behind the AGC for some time. Although, I really don't know if they really had anything to do with the company.

Post by Mark

Thanks for the information on WaShan John!
I note that they have an English translation tab on WaShan's site...I wonder, if I can order any of their product line? I think that I will try and see if they will sell me some disposable cartridges! If I can get them that will be interesting...
Much like the Japanese modelgun hobby, the Taiwanese modelgun history is somewhat hidden and any research on their respective history is not going to be easy. As much help as the internet is, it still has its problems. If no one posts the facts or has a website with the specific information on the Taiwanese hobby's history, it doesn't exist.
I have noted in the past that there was a Japanese book that pictured all of the model/airsoft/replica guns that where made in Japan up to? 1990? but, I don't remember the books title...I would love to see a book on the modelgun history or just the hobby itself..