Full metal Walther PPK (/S)?

Folks,

A guy is selling a full metal PPK replica claiming it is japanese model. I suspected it to be airsoft GBB version from Marushin (seller gave that name) but they didn't manufacture metal airsofts as far as I found. On disassembly I see there is a firing pin in the barrel, which means it is probably PFC model. Replica is black (slightly worn to metal) and it has plastic brown handles with "German eagle". Slide has marking on the left side "German Polizei u. Dienst Automatisch / Pistole Kal.635 BL Mod PDP" and lone word "Japan" on the right side. No manufacturer sign or other marks.

Could you help to identify it?

Will try to provide photos later.

Sounds like the PPK on this thread.
I have one, if you want to fire some questions at me.

https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-general-discussion-f1/what-is-this-walther-history-experts-t802.htm?highlight=walther+pp

Ozguns wrote:

Sounds like the PPK on this thread.
I have one, if you want to fire some questions at me.
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/modelgun-general-discussion-f1/what-is-this-walther-history-experts-t802.htm?highlight=walther+pp

Good catch! Somehow I missed it completely. The one I've seen looks almost the same, except the grips do not have swastika (gentleman used it for reconstruction group, probably switched the grips).

Promised pictures:

Yep, exactly the same one, but without the swastika.

Looks like the grips were made without them, or someone de-nazified them!

Ozguns wrote:

Sounds like the PPK on this thread.
I have one, if you want to fire some questions at me.

Questions:
- does this replica fire cap cartridges, or dummy action only?
- what type of rounds you got with it? (photo would be great)

Mine has solid brass dummy rounds as shown in the link, on one of my answers there.

I can take a closer picture on the weekend.

Ozguns wrote:

Mine has solid brass dummy rounds as shown in the link, on one of my answers there.
I can take a closer picture on the weekend.

Please do - I couldn't quite see what type those are on the smaller picture from the other thread.

I've just photoshopped them from my larger resolution original photo.
This will help you until I take a few new photos.

Still waiting for camera batteries to charge!

Ozguns wrote:

I've just photoshopped them from my larger resolution original photo.
This will help you until I take a few new photos.

Thanks! That clarified the situation - rounds have opening in the front, so it probably would be a cap cartridge.
I think I'll buy the replica and check with Francky1957 to get cartridges (there are none supplied).

These ones are dummy rounds, and the opening in the front is only just 4mm across.

I have an old US Collectors Armoury catalogue from 1985, and it says that they are dummy rounds only, and not for blowback use.

No this is NOT a blowback action , the dummy cartridges are cycled by the mechanical action of the gun ( slide moves back when trigger is pulled )

If anything the cartridges would have had a bit of gunpowder stuffed into the end that would ignite when chambered although this would only provide a little bang and smoke but no blowback.

Its unlikely Francky will have the correct cartridges for this but something like the Marushin colt .25 ones may be adapted to fit. ( from memory you have to turn the ends down a little as they are too long for the mag)

funny to see one with the Swastika missing , perhaps this was for the German market ( where the symbol is banned ) ?

DOC

DOC: thanks for clarification.

PS: I found those cartridges on a very old YJ auction, it has some closeup photos:
http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f75251561

I had a little play with my PPK after I left here last night.

Does anyone remember those little red plastic caps they made for toy guns?
I fitted the red cap into the end of the brass dummy round, and trimmed it off.
It jammed a few times, but when it did work, WOW, it was loud. Much louder that a PFC cap!

So DOC's idea would no doubt work too.

Some years ago I did something similar with my Uzi, where I shaved off match heads and put that inside the cartridge.
It helped, but was not very loud.
This latest idea is a LOT better!

DOC wrote:

funny to see one with the Swastika missing , perhaps this was for the German market ( where the symbol is banned ) ?

It were, indeed. Owner told me he originally bought it in Germany.
I'll see what price he would like to get, even as a dummy this looks to be a very nicely built replica.

I finally got it for ~65 GBP. Replica is exactly as you described in this thread - extremely simple internals with mechanical action. Barrel seemed to be completely blocked, but a plug fell out after the first "shots", showing a little opening. Magazine shows some wear, pity the owner lost original cartridges. Slide is held only at the back, and it unnaturally springs upward near the front of the gun, with a ~1/5th inch of a gap underneath.
Two things surprised me: weight (this PPK seems to weigh a TON!) and incredibly crisp "blowback" action! Time allowing, I will post a small review (even if this is not a PFC modelgun).

smootik wrote:

Time allowing, I will post a small review (even if this is not a PFC modelgun).

A review of this PPK will be very welcome smootik It IS a modelgun and doesn't matter if it's a PFC model or not.

We'll be looking forwards to it

Good catch mate!

I guess Doc is right. This was probably manufactured for the German marked where the swastika is completly banned. Anyway I am quite sure that only a few have found their way to Germany in the 1970s/1980s. They are very hard to come by here.

The markings look like fancy stuff to me. I do not know a real PPK with such markings, saying "German Police and duty automatic pistol", and the spelling as well as the grammer is wrong too.

A review would be nice.

Update: I am quite sure that it is a model for the late 1960s/early 1970s German market. The stamp on the right side of the slide looks like a proof sign from the federal criminal authority (BKA - Bundeskriminalamt) which had to be applied to realistic looking model guns back then here in Germany. Did you get it from Germany mate?

MadMike,

Yeah, those markings do look fancy

Yes, this model comes from Germany (I bought it from a guy who found it in Germany). The mark says BKA | 5IA. I did not know it's origin - great to have explanation of this detail! :-D Also thanks for the dates - I was not sure when this could have been made, thought it was the 1980s.

Mine was bought new around 1981.
It came in an RMI box, and all replica guns here at the time came from the Collectors Armoury.

The only difference is that mine doesn't have the marking on the right of the slide.
The rest is exactly the same.

Ozguns,
If you have a caliper, could you please take some measurements of your cardtridges?
I'll try to find somebody to make replacement ones on a lathe.

As your replica doesn't have the marking, it perfectly fits the explanation of marking origin above :-)

I'm on my work computer at the moment, and I've had a little trouble trying to get this scanned and then on to Photobucket, but I think I got it right now.

Dimensions are in mm, but some dimensions I simply could not get with verniers.
Drawing is not to scale.

Cheers, Dan.

Ozguns wrote:

I think I got it right now.

Brilliant! Thank you very much indeed! :-)

Here's a pic of the boxed one that I sold on the old forum. £35 !!!

Ha, BTW these also work with empty 22lr cases.
Or the one I had did.

pitfighter wrote:

Ha, BTW these also work with empty 22lr cases.
Or the one I had did.

Tried it - works quite well with a single empty case: loads and ejects nicely!

With more empty cases loaded they get stuck in the mag. Rim of the top case
blocks on rim of the next case, front of the top case hits forward wall of magazine
when slide moves forward, jams.

Anyway, it's a very good idea.

(I didn't have time yet to find someone who would make dummy rounds).