review coming soon: A teaser Kokusai thompson 1928

In the tradition that Smootik started
I should find time soon to do a review of a very nice model:)
Any guesses

If it is what I think it is, I won't guess ;-)

Interesting design of the pin, with integrated bypass channel at a side. I haven't seen one like that yet - they either didn't have a channel at all (blocked barrel) or had it in the middle.

I think you know
I agree, very interesting pin design, it is also the first I have seen like this. It actually has given me a way to front vent a few other models I have without having to worry about hole in the centre of small diameter CP pins
Other designs ( such as the lovely Sterling pin Cerwyn recently drew a pic of rely on large diameter threaded hole for pin, this is a nice compromise

BTW there is a slot in both "sides"

Yup, now that I looked again it's sort of similar to Sterling, as if it were a Sterling one made thinner, exposing the holes as channels.

I can't wait for the review, it should be very interesting to read&see other details :-D Nice that you found time to write it for us, I guess this model is so exciting you just couldn't pass on the occassion ;-)

Interesting this type of det pin is usually used in meta;/steel models with no venting through barrel as it screws in so the vent holes down the side would normally be a waste of time, The det pin looks like a papercap type and i am thinking mgc sten MK111 based on absolutley bollocks all but instinct, could be an automag but never seen tha channels down the side. clueless really best it not be something really expensive that i have to have.

I promise I will do review early next week so not long to wait

Yes metal
Yes front venting
Yes paper cap (easy conversion to CP )
not a pistol
VERY VERY old
never fired !!
Not a sten...
Makers name has a "u" in it

Now very intriqued but i have no idea, now thinking rifle but just cos i cant think of a sub gun

I'll stick my neck out with a wild guess...

Marushin UZI

Early paper cap firing, all metal,

I like wild guesses

No not an UZI
BUT Claymore,,
it is not a rifle

CLUE: no pictures of it on this forum yet........ (I think....)

With a build up like this I hope your not disappointed
Honestly it really is very nice

Johnny,

We (or at least myself) are now very impatient to learn more after all that teasing =)

OK I just seem to keep running out of time...

Teasing over, It's a Kokusai Thompson and it is very nice indeed!

But I will get it done! I will have to do a night shift and get this one nailed !!
At the very least i will do some photos Sunday with text to follow in the week!

Smootik , you are the King of reviews, max respect as I have no idea how you manage to get such good reviews done so regularly!!

Johnny

That's easy! I do reviews to procrastinate whenever there is something more important to do ;-)

On a more serious note these get done in smaller pieces over time. Sometimes I have good sun and time to catch some pictures. Another time I work on history introduction for real gun, and research history of it's models. Model description is usually another go, based either on model or pictures and memory (if in travel without the model). Disassembly is usually a huge point by itself (except for simple ones like M1934), with a lot of work on pictures and description and the job itself. Finally there is proof-reading after a couple of days, before actual posting. Reviews take me a couple of weeks to a couple of months to get completed.

After writing the first two or three I got myself a framework. It's easier for me to do things in a structured way, based on earlier one. Starting the first review was the hardest thing to do. Perhaps that's why I started with a "Fools' Day" review of a toy revolver ;-) Having read multiple times through so many reviews, especially by Gary (garyforce), it was only fair to give back to the community, once I had something to write about.

At the moment I have only one almost ready for posting, and a few in early writing, without any pictures (no good light this autumn/winter). They will be coming here when the time is right :-)

Teasers have a mixed effect - you feel obliged to complete a review, which is both a good and a bad thing ;-) As a reader I will definitely coax you to at least put some pictures here :-D

OK really sorry this has taken soooo long
Lots on my plate at the moment...
But here we are, please feel free to correct anything that is wrong, I often make mistakes

For now limited to pics with a few words more will follow:
The model: Kokusai 1928A Thompson built in ?1968?

Left side markings

more left side markings

Nice oil can holder in butt!!

Sights FULLY adjustable for windage and elevation!!!

Right side

Action slides apart as it should!!

Good casting detail on fins, (compared to MGC Thompson)

Came with drum and stck 20rnd mags:)

Note correct trip bar setup (no trip bar on MGC version)

Stripped

Bolt face, unused!! not sure of second "slot" reason??

Note ejector in correct place!

Barrel unscrewed and open cart det pin

Open barrel (front venting!!)

Chamber

Thank you JohnnyV, it was worth waiting for this information :-)

Good observations of differences with MGC. Looking at the picutres I have to admit that finish looks cleaner and crispier than on MGC, with more realistic details.

Second slot on bolt could be a weight reduction measure, or a safety feature to prevent tinkering.

I have had the pleasure of holding this thompson (very tempted to do a runner ) and it is a superb replica and fits in the shoulder much better than the mgc, you feel you are at a stretch with the mgc but not this one. the question with this model seeing as how rare it is, is to fire or not to fire!!

er .... isnt the second slot for the ejector to run along

DOC

Oh yes of course
had not even thought about it till I took the photos in a rush today
Told you I have a lot on my plate at the moment LOL

Whilst your there Doc... Do you think the extractor extends a long way towards the center of the bolt face??? looks strange to me???
Have you had one of these before, if you have did you fire it? what was the firing performace like?

DOC wrote:

er .... isnt the second slot for the ejector to run along

Duh, gets me every time :-)

English saying "can't see the wood for the trees"

These photos were certainly well worth waiting for Johnny, thank you for sharing them

It is interesting to see so many differences there are between the Kokusai and MGC models. As a matter of interest, how many rounds does the Kokusai Drum mag' hold Is it 38 as the MGC or 50 like a real one

Quote :

how many rounds does the Kokusai Drum mag' hold Is it 38 as the MGC or 50 like a real one

The drum mag is very very like an MGC one, the model will accept MGC drum mags but not MGC stick mags as the dovetail part on the back of the Kokusai mag is a tiny bit narrower Though if the mag slot on the Kokusai was opened up a little it would be fine to accept real and MGC mags. But i cannot bring myself to spoil it........

The Drum mags are so similar it is hard to spot any difference apart from spot weld type (though this could be just a different welder on a different day )
The only real difference I can see is that the Kokusai drum weighs about 20g more..?

Hi, JohnnyV.
Kokusai Thompson is very rare even in Japan.
I don’t think kokusai produced drum mag. They produced only 30 rd box mag.
Your drum mag must be MGC's and someone diverted for Kokusai.

Thank you John, my next question was going to be "which came first, Kokusai or MGC's Thompson " but reading smootik's Modelgun History category:-

smootik wrote:

One of the original modelgun manufacturers, created in 1960s. Initially sold MGC models under brand "INT", but in 1980s created their own brand manufacturing mostly revolvers, some copied from MGC. Revolvers made Kokusai brand well-known...

Which aroused my curiosity further. The Kokusai model appears to be a much better finished product than MGCs' type 21, not only is the overall appearance better, its design is quite different.
The Drum Magazine may well be MGC or from the same supplier that MGC used to make their magazines but the Modelgun itself is something quite different.

I've searched through as many of the Japanese sites as I can find but can't find any more about this model's origins.
If KOKUSAI and MGC had such close links, could the Bond Shop have had any input into this lovely looking model

Hello HIGUsan
Thank you for that information, i did wonder if drum mag was an old MGC one as it is so very much the same.
I wonder if you can provide any extra info on this model as I could not find any even searching Japanese websites.
Is the 1968 date correct for year of manufacture?
I believe this is the best modelgun Thompson I have seen (but I have not held Tanaka one)
Any info you can give to help my understanding would be very much appreciated

FYI: one is on Yahoo Auctions now, price at the moment is 62000 JPY:
http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f105113911