Deteriorated and Broken Parts Photos

Smootik asked that I post some photos of some of the deteriorated and broken pieces from a few of my guns. Here I have a few from one of my Luger P-08’s. Some of these guns had been stored in a house down in South Florida and have been in the salt air environment. However, I have never seen damage like this to any type of cast metal. I travel worldwide conducting aviation safety inspections and still have never seen this before. I see a lot of aircraft and components that live by the oceans including sea planes, however never have I see metal literally swollen/expanded like this. I even considered it may have come in contact with an acid or some type of chemical but the actual magazine is only rusted and the gun frame is undamaged.

With that said, the first two photos are of the bottom of the magazine. When I first received this collection, I thought these parts were plastic and had been in a fire but the frame of the gun is not damaged nor is the barrel assy. The Magazine release button also looked like the end cap of the mag. I had to use a Dremel cutoff wheel to slowly remove enough metal so it could be driven out from the left side to release the mag. After inspecting the magazine for a way to remove it from the gun, I finally grasped the end cap and pulled gently. Here is the result.





Here is what happened when I tried to open the action which was not seized at all. Just a slight two finger pull and. . .



And here is the bolt face:



Now I wish I could identify what type of damage this is and what caused it but for now I am at a loss. I am going to bring the pieces in to work tomorrow and have some of our engineers look at it and get their input.

Needless to say, as you see I am going to be scrounging parts for a long time to come. (part of the fun for me!)

OK, so has anyone out there seen anything like this??

Hi Fearless (what a name) :

From the latest ad of Japan's Rampant Classics specialised in Colt SAA modelgun variants:




As this the first time for them to make metal SAA, they demonstrate their use of high-grade alloy named "Metal Locklite" and to convince customers more they show 2 sample pieces made 5 years ago (the one on the left is the high grade one and the one on the right is made with reused material) - it showed signs of cracks like those on the bolt face & toggle of your Luger....

The end cap ...having different result with the rest of the mag: apart from more exposure to the air, different use of material might be another case: easy to make the mag body with sheet metal but the cap requires more work...since it is more difficult to form in shape with steel therefore iron / alloy (i.e. softer metal) might be used in this case...

Not too fair to compare modelgun parts with aircraft aluminium ...so my conclusion is that the heavily corroded parts are actually made with pot metal/reused materials together with salty environment...different opinions welcome ...

I don't think its all about salt air , I have seen chronic metal fatigue like this in a few modelguns , mostly Hudson I might add.

I don't think it can be about moisture either as I have seen modelguns that have been in storage that has allowed them to get very wet for a long time yet the structure of the metal is still very good.

Id hazard a guess that certain "batches" of modelguns may have been produced with sub standard mixes of the alloy , thus allowing them to deteriorate badly.

as for repair : early lugers had wooden stoppers to their mags so you may be able to whittle one of these easy enough.

The toggle parts one of the members on here may have as a while back someone posted lots of P08 Spares.

DOC

Thank you for these pictures - it would be very interesting to learn about the process that happened here. Hopefully engineers in the company might have some input and enlighten us.

Various spare parts were offered by Richard Jones in this thread:
https://mp40modelguns.forumotion.net/t1383-various-parts-lugerp38-and-loads-unknown

Wow i've never seen metal that bad

Here's a short result of Google-fu - it seems that moisture + paper packaging can lead to ZnAl corrosion, especially if such part touches other material (steel of magazine). Now, MGC Thompsons seems to develop such corrosion near contact places with wooden grips, it could be another datapoint trying to find out the cause.

In any case I'm going to get silica gel bags and use them for my stored metal models. Note: bags work when enclosed in a plastic bag together with object, otherwise ambient moisture will use up all capacity.

http://www.eazall.com/faq.aspx

Quote :

Q: Is there a problem with galvanic corrosion of zinc alloys?
A: Galvanic corrosion is seldom a factor with ZAMAK and ZA alloys because of the material's inherently good corrosion resistance.

If a small die cast zinc part is electrically connected to a large brass or steel part and immersed in a corrosive electrolyte the rate of corrosion may be increased to the point where there is a problem. This can usually be overcome by either insulating the parts or giving a surface coating to the zinc alloy.


Q: My customer is getting white rust on stored parts despite careful packing. What is the answer?

A: White rust is evidence that corrosion has occurred, usually in a moist environment with either acid or alkali materials present. Obviously, die-castings should be dry before being stored but a common cause is "sweating" or condensation, which occurs when the temperature changes suddenly. The use of paper or cardboard packaging greatly increases the effect since these materials contain acid and they hold the moisture in too.

Open wire mesh containers with plastic separators work best by allowing circulation of air around the parts. The use of "de-watering" solutions or vapor phase inhibitor wrappings is also recommended.

I also thought this looks similar to inter-granular corrosion. Either way, I can make replacement parts if needed, but it has me doing a closer visual inspection of each one as I go through them. And I always coat each one in oil before storing them anyway. Thanks for the input!

So the moral of the stroy is..........

Dont store

Play with

Quote :

Here's a short result of Google-fu

I know this should not be here in such a serious post but Smootiks use of the google-fu word reminded me of this and I think its funny

1. googlefu
A googlefu master possesses many secret and awe-inspiring moves allowing him ultimate access to the most obscure data. Sometimes abbreviated as goo-fu.
My friend couldn't find jack shit online, but I applied the 'ol googlefu and showed him that those naked pictures of his girlfriend were still on the net.