Newbie Question P225

Hi Guys

I've had a Geco P225 for over 10 years and I actually voluntarily took it to the local police station back in 1995 who took it away and tested it and some weeks later I got a call telling me it was fine to own and I asked for it in writing which I have a letter (still have) saying its been checked by a qualified armour and cannot be converted and is under current legislation fine to own. I just recently saw this new act and see its now illegal to 'import' this type of blankfirer but as far as I could see doesnt mention if you already have one. Is this similar to the Old Spec/New Spec de-ac affair i.e if you own a pre 1995 de-ac then you can keep it that way?

I am now concerned as to what the status is if you 'already have one?'. I have noticed someone else selling mags for one on here and someone saying theyve got a P225 so any help appreciated. All i've seen on the net is people talking about imports being illegal etc. Does anyone know the defintive answer to the above pre owning?

Thanks guys great looking forum

Anyone?

not massivley sure mate but what seems to happen is the ones that are already in the country (unless previously stated)
are ok to own/sell but no new ones are alowed to be imported/sold by dealers but private sales seem to be ok unfortionatly cant find anything to support this in writing but thats what happens it seems

hope ive helped a little

It all comes down to if the pistol is front vented or top vented .

Top venting blank firers still change hands on secondhand websites altho the legality of even this is questionable following the VCR Bill .

Thats why even top ventors - the very few available in shops - are now painted a lovely shade of orange . Otherwise they are available in more realistic colours to those with compliance under the act - ie - a re enactor / airsoft skirmish / theatre productions etc .

Front vent is a different matter entirely and I am told 5 years stays are available at one of the local majesties prisons for owners of these if your local constabulary find out .

The paperwork you mentioned will not be worth a " jot " in this case I,m afraid .

I can tell you all this with some certainty as a collector contact of mine is currently on bail for a similar charge .

Carl

with the forensic science service no longer being in existance you would think that being independently tested would hold water in court after all thats what the police themselves and manufacturers have to pay to have done with new designs these days
the front venting thing isent illiegal per-say its the fact that most front venters are able to discharge flares/gas from an adapter fitted to the muzzell
the law in the case of blank firers or any other inanimate firearm shape in this country is deliberatly murky so id say it would depend on your local constabularys interpritastion but defenatly keep hold of that paperwork

I've just sent off a Freedom of Information request for replica firearms and blank firing weaponry to the Home Office and Supreme Courts.



Home Office

To: FoIRequests@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

To whom it may concern,

Under The Freedom of Information Act, I wish to make a request for the following information concerning forensic examinations carried out by the former Forensic Science Service and/or other departments and organisations relating to replica firearms and blank firing replica weaponry.

• A complete and detailed list of which replica firearms and blank firing weaponry were submitted and/or examined, including makes/models.

• Which replica firearms and blank firing weaponry failed forensic examination and deemed readily convertible, including the dates and locations on which forensic examination were carried out and how long the examination process lasted, including what equipment was used during the examination process and what constituted to the failure of said replica firearms and blank firing weaponry.

• Which replica firearms and blank firing weaponry passed forensic examination and deemed not readily convertible, including the dates and locations on which forensic examination was carried and how long the examination process lasted, including what equipment was used during the examination process and what constituted to the successful passing of said replica firearms and blank firing weaponry.

• A detailed list of all recommendations made by the former Forensics Science Service and/or other departments and organisations regarding preferred methods/materials in the construction of replica firearms and blank firing weaponry.

• A detailed list of all replica firearms and blank firing weaponry that had either failed forensic examination and then had that decision overturned for it to be deemed non readily convertible, and all replica firearms and blank firing weaponry that had passed forensic examination and then had that decision overturned for it to be deemed readily convertible.

The following information can either be emailed to me at:
##########@###########.

Or sent via post to:
#############
#############
#############
#############

Many Thanks,
###############



Supreme Court

To: paul.brigland@supremecourt.gsi.gov.uk

Dear Mr Brigland,

Under The Freedom of Information Act, I wish to make a request for the following information concerning all court cases relating to replica firearms and blank firing replica weaponry.

• Which replica firearms and blank firing weaponry that had failed forensic examination and deemed by the Courts.

• Which replica firearms and blank firing weaponry passed forensic examination and deemed not readily convertible by the Courts.

• A detailed list of all recommendations made by the Courts and/or other departments and organisations, if any, regarding preferred methods/materials in the construction of replica firearms and blank firing weaponry.

• A detailed list of all replica firearms and blank firing weaponry that had either failed forensic examination and then had that decision overturned by the Courts for it to be deemed non readily convertible, and all replica firearms and blank firing weaponry that had passed forensic examination and then had that decision overturned by the Courts for it to be deemed readily convertible.

The following information can either be emailed to me at:
##########@###########.

Or sent via post to:
#############
#############
#############
#############

Many Thanks,
###############

Thanks for the replies guys. I agree it does appear to be a little murky and I just want to know what to do with it I dont wont to be breaking the law. I've had this for nearly 15 years and as far as i'm concerned they 'passed it' back in 2005. If thats now 'not the case' thats fine too but I need to know what to do, you know? It's been sat in my cupboard for years and years!

Update - I just tried to call the Firearms Enquiry Officer who did the appraisal for me and found out he is no longer in the same team and was advised to try the unit in the week which I intend to do. I want this put to bed either I can keep it or can't.

So I called my local firearms enquiry team who advised me that "If it's been signed off previously then your fine"
I tried to ask about the new legislation and was told "That applies more to new items" i.e i think she meant if your trying to buy one. So i'm a happy bunny

Hi Taz
Straight question, does it vent through the barrel, and is the end threaded for an attachment?

If it's got a threaded end and vents forwards out the barrel, find a river and ditch it, as chances are it's on the sec 5 list!

What you need to remember though is, Firearms Officers are just that "Firearms Officers" and not qualified forensics examiners. When a blank firer is submitted for testing to a recognised forensics laboratory, they will conduct various tests in accordance with the relevant sections of the Firearms Act, to determine in their independent scientific opinion, whether or not it is readily convertible. Now, that doesn't then mean it's illegal, but what then happens is a Judge will then take the scientific opinion of the examiners and then come to a final conclusion whether it is readily convertible as per the Firearms Act or not. A Judge can deem a blank firer readily convertible even if it passes testing, and likewise a Judge can deem a blank firer not readily convertible even if it has failed testing. Ultimately, only the Courts can decide. 9 times out of 10 though, the Judge goes along with the scientific opinion.

Just a cautionary note (apologies for being slightly off topic):

A few years ago, I came across a Saxby and Palmer converted Lee Enfield "Air Rifle" and enquired of Brocock (the successors to S&P) as to what I should be doing with it (if it came in to my possession) They advised that I should steer clear of it, as post the Hungerford disaster, the Police (who hated the conversion of the Lee into a Air Rifle) managed to get the Firearms act changed to prohibit re-classified firearms. Basically, if it isn't deactivated, it's still a firearm. They quoted the story of another customer who had one of these and asked the police for advice; the police said that they would get back to him, and they did, with a raid in the early hours of the morning.

According to the guy I spoke to, the Lee Enfield conversion will test as an Air Rifle (under 12ft lbs muzzle energy) but as the firearms act changed, it remains a firearm in the eyes of the law.

The tale may have been "exaggerated" a little by the guy I spoke to, but it was enough to make me steer clear of said Lee Enfield.

The point being, the police appeared to be a little over zealous in this tale (and don't take this as anti-police) so just be a little careful as to how much you tell them. Ignorance of the law is no defence.

Apologies again, for being off topic and maybe a little dramatic...

Hi Guys

Yes it does vent through the barrel but the end is blocked off with a black triangle shape so nothing can be attached to it. RE: dumping it, I really dont think that would be clever as the serial number is listed on the original letter I received in 2005 passing it off from the police station as fine to own and if this was found by someone and used in a crime..guess where it would come back to when they run a check on it?

She gave me the name and number of my 'local firearms officer' who she said I could call if I wanted which I did and got no answer earlier today so left him a message to call me back.

End of the day, i've been 100% up front with this and havent hidden anything at any point and dont intend to start now. The wording on the letter is 'It has been checked by a qualifed armourer and found not to be readily convertible to a firearm and under current legilslation is legal to be held by yourself'

I asked her re: the legilslation "I think has changed since then?" and she said "they are talking about new ones"

I actually dont want this to be hanging over me hence I am going out of my way to ensure I get 'another' 100 percent ok from the police that either they let me keep it..or take it off me (which im more than happy for them to do!) but im not dumping it lol

If you have a screw thread at the end of the barrel which all german made blank firers have then this is illegal as it means you can attach something to the end of the barrel such as the flare attachement that normally comes with german models. So you can fire a projectile using a blank with this or some other attachement, so total no no here in the UK. the trouble you have is it is such a grey area that each police force interprets the regs in a different way, so one force will prosecute, one will slap your wrists and one wont do anything. But all said and done the threaded barrel end is total No No.