Dying hobby

I think modelgun is slowly dying no more new production and no more new topics to talk about...

Yeah I agree it's scaring so quiet

But do not despair
I have been working a bit on one of my old models and will soon have some news to post

I believe MULE/CAW continues to produce new or "revival" models. We can't forget the CAW M1A1 (one of my favorites) and the M3A1 among others!!! I know they have also had rumblings of reviving the MGC Thompson. They are probably a smaller player, but at least it is something!

Tanio Koba released the GM7.5 not too terribly long ago, which was new, even though it appears very similar to the GM7. Koba also re-released the 14.5" carbine-length M4.

Maybe if we all wish upon the same star a MP5 will be produced!

Agree I really appreciate the "relaunch" from MULE/CAW.

An MP5 would really be something.

I did see HWS (I think) launching a dummy Mauser Hsc, really nice looking - so I am hoping they will release a PFC version later - maybe in 2017

I hope the upbeat chatter about anticipated new model gun offerings won't be confined to the past tense.

The fairly recent release of the CAW M1A1 was a very nice surprise.

A re release of the MGC Thompson would be great. Everyone would like to see that happen!

I think that with the 3-D model gun part experimentation, refinishing/repair information, ect. that's still being shared, the MP40MGF will continue on.

In the US, Unique Canes was the epicenter for pfc cap procurement. Sadly, Those days are gone.

Dont worry guys we go through this from time to time, long periods of no discussion.For me and not posting as i used to its time, time to actually prepare the rounds fire them and then clean everything, time i just dont have at the moment so there are loads of models i would like to vid, due to upgrades or new type rounds but just dont have the time to do it.
new models, as said only CAW/MULE are doing anything at the moment, they are supposed to be doing an AK but word of that has been quite for some time (expensive as well it seems).
tanio, well everything he brings out seems to be a secret, everything gets snapped up before you actually know he has produced anything so no chance of picking one up and i am fed up with just another variance on a 45.

i really dont believe this hobby will actually die, but we will go through these quite times but as cerwyn will confirm we have been through this a few times before, cycles as they say.

I think that this hobby will always be small; dying... probably not, but always small as we are in between airsoft, airguns, blank fire and real weapon's. It’s not helped by the small number of companies making them and also the general anti-gun feeling in society.

This is why the forum is massively important as it gives all of us an international place we can get together and share our hobby, which will carry on despite the lack of new builds.

8ace

I don't think so...
I feel like more and more companies including small ones producing/ re producing modelguns and its parts nowadays.
ZEKE is one of them. they have just released hollow inner pistons and pin for marushin beretta 84. and also planning to sell the same things for tanio koba M4. and this month tanaka will release a new model called HK P8 EVO High performance. new materials called what they name it high perfomance plastic. this new one is like ABS+HW. as durable as an ABS but also as heavy as an HW plastic . and new cartridges too. they still use the 5mm but aluminum cartridges with the same coating that that tanio koba carts have.
I'm sure they will make their glock and other models with this new plastic eventually.

This sounds like good news from Tanaka a new model brilliant, that goes on the list. The new EVO rounds and small internal improvements made a really good difference in firing and not breaking so a new plastic sounds even better.

scrupule45 wrote:

and this month tanaka will release a new model called HK P8 EVO High performance.  new materials called what they name it high perfomance plastic. this new one  is like ABS+HW.  as durable as an ABS but also as heavy as an HW plastic . and new cartridges too. they still use the 5mm but aluminum cartridges with the same coating that that tanio koba carts have.  
I'm sure they will make their glock and other models with this new plastic eventually.

A H&K P8? Not a USP? So a new mold and new safety? Is there a link available with some information? Will they still make the USP?
Any timeframe when these will be available, and hopefully when&where here in Europe?
Lots of questions... but this would be the reason why I might suspend buying a USP now, so any information is welcome.

I don't dare to hope for more models in the future, if they apparently keep on with the development and  seem to be changing theit product line-up (P8 instead of USP) - but one can dream... HK VP9 anyone? USP tactical (would only need a longer threaded barrel)?

Edit: never mind - found Tanaka's japanese HP, apparently with P8 markings and with correct safety set-up. Now I just need to find a way to get the site translated...

Looks pretty much like a USP, i will of course want one but i just hope the trigger problem has been solved.

description translation below

H & K P8
Evolution HP (model gun)
A new line is emerging in the evolution series. It is a model specialized for ignition adopting HP resin (high performance resin) as a material. It is highly resistant to scratches and its impact resistance is improved by special plastic with ABS characteristics and weight like HW. (Brewing like HW resin can not be done) Evolution into a newly designed Evo 2 which changed the cartridge to hard aluminum material. Due to alumite, it is strong against scratches and easy to maintain, UP has both O ring durability and ignition sound as it is, with the characteristics of short stroke and big power of 5 mm cap explosive as it is. (It can also be used for conventional Evo main body) The first series of HP series is German federal army formal handgun H & K P8. The control lever operation differs from private USP, it seems to be for military, there is no frame marking, special model such as equipped with white magazine. We are also changing parts and adjusting for performance improvement, so it has become a model that many people can enjoy
specification
full length:
198 mm
weight:
640 g
Number of bullets:
15 shots
Remarks:
• 5 mm cap explosive ignition ceremony
price:
¥ 24,800 (excluding tax)
• Product catalog

So, a limited production run / special edition?
I want one, somebody sign me up and import that thing A.S.A.P.!
(and a 'normal' USP, too. HW+ABS or Evo...)

So, now that I secured a new P8 and longingly await the release of the new USP Evo HP, let me chip in:

Tanaka shows best, that best chances for new model guns seems to lie with companies that diversify
into air soft as well. Costs for development and new dies can be spread on a higher volume of production, since model guns do by far have a smaller overall market potential than airsoft. Unfortunately...

Given the current European legislation on deactivated guns and further plans to restrict legal gun-ownership, I see a market for realistic model guns. If the internals are closer to the "original" mechanism, they would offer a chance for those collectors interested in weapons mechanics, since deactivated guns are welded into one solid lump if metal without many of the original features still working.

That being said, the old dream of a MP5 has some potential, IMHO. With one investment in development and molds and dies, several different types can be produced: "old style" MP5A2 and MP5A3 with fixed stock and retractable stock, respectively; the newer models with wide forearm and ambidextrous safety, the SD models, which in PFC would have a even more realistic touch, soundwise, and the K- and PDW-models: Internals mostly the same, some changes on certain parts. And given the still iconic image of an MP5, there surely is a market for such a modelgun. Only downside: due to Japanese laws, it would have to be a plastic gun... although I still dreams of using VFCs or WEs metal receivers, but I doubt that these companies would venture into the PFC market (given Taiwanese legal restrictions).

And dreaming on, I see a potential for a PFC MP7 or even P90: having plastic outer shell "in real live" anyway, the legal restrictions wouldn't´t be such a burden. Both models from one company could be possible by using one common cartridge for both, since 4,6x30 and 5,7x28 are not that far apart sizewise anyway; maybe a different screw-on cartridge top would be possible. Alas, to venture into the market from scratch would likely be cost prohibitive.

But I think, realistically this will remain a dream...

It took me a bit of thinking (I'm somewhat of a slooow thinker recently, huh) before I decided to have an opinion here ;-) The realist in me says that this hobby is slowing down, but the optimist is happy it's still there. I guess it depends what you make the point of reference.

I feel our hobby is moving further away from mainstream for multiple reasons.

Less manufacturers. We lost Hudson and MGC, recently only Tanio Koba, Tanaka, Shoei, HWS and CAW keep not just producing but developing new models.

Worse external perception. Guns carry a stigma that grows with shrinking stability. Having a gun-related hobby (such as modelguns) is seen more as "suspicious" due to media noise.

No truly free market. Shipping is becoming more and more of a hurdle. 10-15 years ago it wasn't an issue to ship modelguns between countries. Today choice of carriers is severely limited, even within the same country.


In pre-internet days all these factors would have been a kiss of death on our hobby, fortunately our (little) group still has enough power together to make the hobby going pretty good. Not comparable with our Japanese friends who are in a much better position, but still pretty good :-)


Please do not take me as dying hobby sign ;-) I post little these days as I am more in the bottom part of the hobby sinusoide. I still enjoy my models a lot and still like to share the bits of knowledge I still have.


Don't forget to have fun!

I think it will always be a small hobby. Airsoft, well you can collect as well as play. And also you can't sell them to kids. Maybe if they linked them to computer games like that target system back in the 80's. They should do one for the Wii but they have to have an exception for replica weapons.

doesn't help all these stupid laws in the UK

I still wonder why model guns aint more common in the movie industry?

I know airsoft guns are pretty common to use today when shooting movies but those most of the time require some special effects added later in post production.

And that include muzzle flashes AND shells ejecting. And I am talking from my own experiance when I say those effects can be quite expensive and hard to get good and real looking !

I mean with model guns you get both of those..
Is it because its so time consuming loading each cartridge?

I've got a few model guns-some are used most are new. As I tend to favor the Thompson, I've got seven of them. MGC/3, Hudson/3, and CAW/2.

Unless you've been able to stockpile a few spare parts and/or own a parts donor model gun, you need to be a machinist or at least know one to keep these things alive.

Here in the gun "friendly" USA, a beat up a real Thompson in decent working order would probably set you back a small fortune. Sure real parts are easier to locate but; with a Thompson model gun, there is no need for federal involvement with the ATF&E. The thousands of dollars saved can help send a kid to college or better yet, used to purchase a new car, motorcycle, or perhaps more model guns! A cumbersome safe really isn't necessary when storing model guns. Paper targets, 1930's gangsters, or WW11 German soldiers aren't even required when you just want to look at the darn thing. With these smg models, WW11 re-enactors have something quite neat to carry about and I suspect said model guns would probably past muster in a film or documentary piece.

Many of these model guns by merit of their age, build quality, and sophistication are certainly worth keeping. Will the dollar value of these items ever really increase? I suspect that in the USA the answer would be a resounding NO!

The dedication and skill level of more than a few forum members is evident in their postings. Are they ready to throw in the towel? I don't think so. Ten years ago, who could have imagined that affordable 3D laser printers would be used in attempting to replicate model gun parts.

If the good folks of Cuba can keep a vast fleet of aging cars and motorcycles in continued service, maybe our model guns and perhaps more importantly the forum itself, will be around for a while.

The opinions expressed are not necessarily the views of the station. Thank you.

IMO. - and that's not worth much, it is this:

1. The cartridges never worked very well, and still don't, come up with a cheap and easy way for the cartridges to work effectively in FA or Semi and you'll have something appealing.
I had a MAC 11 that I never got to fire more than two rounds, it was awful and I lost interest in trying to fix it.
Perhaps a disposable plug fire round, that like starter pistol blanks you buy in a box of 50 - it doesn't;t gam up the internals, and you simply toss them away afterwards.

2. Make some darned modern firearms, enough with the 70's run of the mill action movie guns, let's see some Gulf war style weapons, some hyper-modern slick finish autos, interesting combat pieces, there are so many incredible firearms on the market, but we're still looking at these dull MGC circa 1975 catalogue guns.

Just thoughts.

I agree with JJ on some points and have a few more thoughts myself............which are probably also worth 2 cents at best............

1.Carts - I don't usually find that it's a problem with the carts working, but they must be meticulously clean it seems in order for them to work well.  The MGC and Tanio Koba carts are very reliable in my experience.  But the cleaning is such a pain.  You have to love the hobby to not give up on it.

If you're looking for a model that fires well in FA or SA right out of the box, though, any of the Tanio Koba models - 1911's or M4's are the ticket.  Still got to clean 'em good.

I have a couple of MGC M11's that run the Tanio Koba Easy CP cartridges and they never miss a beat.  I think the bigger issue with this particular set of models for me is going to be wear of the bolts and lack of any replacements being available.  Lack of parts doesn't help the hobby because some models wear quickly.

The idea of disposable rounds is very appealing to me and I think to many others.  The meticulous cleaning of current cartridges can be tedious and tiresome.  The time for me spent cleaning is 100x more than the time spent firing.  That's a bit of an exaggeration..............maybe.  I'd pay up for a reliable disposable round.

Also, for some of us not in Japan or the UK, getting caps is getting very, very difficult at best.  That doesn't help expand the hobby in markets like the US.  

2. As far as the model gun selection, I agree with that, too.  Now, I enjoy my models from different eras - Westerns, WWII, 80's, but modern gun versions being released seems to be lacking.  What about an MP5?  That's not new in the real gun world, but why doesn't that exist as a model?  I'm sure it has a lot to do with economics.  There has to be a tremendous capital investment to create a new model from the ground up.  And for a hobby that isn't likely growing, I can understand it being a risky investment.  However, you'd think with the GBB airsoft models available currently that it wouldn't be too hard for a manufacturer to adapt to a modelgun configuration. I'd be one of the first in line to pay for a matching pair of MP5 modelguns if I could get my hands on them.

I agree on an interest in all eras.
My collection of firearms is all pre-1945 - lol!

My comments were based on opening the hobby up to new enthusiasts, and collectors.