Beta C Drum Magazine

Post by gavin

ive seen about that a few people managed to make real ar mags fit in model guns but had troubles because the springs are to strong i read somewhere that the beta c somehow does not use springs could this be a posability

Post by Mark

Actually, the Beta Mags do use individual springs per drum. These have lots of spring pressure for proper feeding. Even if you where to get one to work in an MGC/Marushin M16, you would go broke just buying the needed (MGC or Marushin) 100 cartridges to fill the magazine
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

100 round drum mag? oh yessssssss! I want one!
Hang the expense, just letting ALL them off in go would have to be worth it!
Luckily, I have a very loyal girlfriend to help me sort out cleaning and loading cartridges too so she'd be delighted to be given 100 all at once! (NOT!)
Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by gavin


im guessing after the holes in the wall and picking up all those carts cleanig them and reloading them she would not be so loyal and you would be getting a slap

ive checked the beta site and if i get around to doing it it looks like the internals would be pretty easy to modify heres a link to the site tis is anormal drum and would cost £105.91

https://betaco.com/details.asp?rid=8&weapon=M16/M4

this is a nicer one with a clear back for only ten dolars more this is the type i would modify it would cost £111.22

https://betaco.com/details.asp?rid=573&weapon=M16/M4

ive emailed them to see if they would ship to scotland but i think they will say yes

alough if i do it i dought i wiil ever be able to afford enough carts to fill it so i wiil probbably just fill it with brass as its cheap enough on ebay 100 for 7 to 12 pound will model guns eject brass

Post by Mark

I wonder if the spring pressure will allow the gun to operate properly with the drag from the cartridges in the magazine. Modelguns use spring tension balance as the power levels that are available from the caps is fairly low. If you can lubricate the action as well as the cartridges with enough grease and silicone oil then it just might work.

However, there is a slight problem. I doubt that you can get the drum from Beta direct as there is a state department prohibition on certain firearms parts. Some parts can be shipped as long as there are approval letters on the parts. It sucks but that's the way it is...
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

gavin wrote:

i dought i wiil ever be able to afford enough carts to fill it so i wiil probbably just fill it with brass as its cheap enough on ebay 100 for 7 to 12 pound will model guns eject brass

You can't buy empty cartridges (PFC) on e-Bay, can you???
Francky is probably your best and cheapest option for correct pfc rounds mate, (caps too)
Cerwyn

Post by gavin

cerwyn i just ment reloading brass to fill out the drum as it would cost to much to fill the drum with carts

gavin wrote:

im guessing after the holes in the wall and picking up all those carts cleanig them and reloading them she would not be so loyal and you would be getting a slap

I showed her this and she gave me a good slap just for thinking about it!

gavin wrote:

cerwyn i just ment reloading brass to fill out the drum as it would cost to much to fill the drum with carts

Do you mean empty brass cases from fired rounds? Sorry mate, my brain still hurt from the slap I got earlier!
I doubt that the model gun would eject empty cases like those because I'd think they'd get pushed too far into the detonator chamber. Unless of the course the ejector claw held the case rim firmly enough as it ccled through?
If it 'dropped' it, there's nothing then to push it back out of the chamber?
You could only 'dry fire' and cycle each one through by hand anyway though.
Cost of working c.p. cartridges can be considerably cheaper from Francky compared to UK sources (not always mind you) so it's not out of the question to build up a good stock of working c.p's.
Just think of it, a 100round mag full of rounds... a gun that actally works without jamming (God, if only) HEAVEN !

Cerwyn

Post by Mark

That would be very cool if the drum worked and you could fire an entire drum without jams. But, I think that the build up from the caps will slow the action after 40-50 rounds. I still think that the drum might not work as the spring pressure that the drum needs to function. If I can afford to get one of these drums, I will to see if it will work in my MGC, Marushin M16's and my real AR15.

The drums just might be available on the surplus market in the UK as it is so I would look in all of the suspect spots for them if you like to spend money.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by gavin

i just ment bass casses for display because i would get the clear version im not that intrested in firing alot i just want to learn the internals of the guns but i will still fire it a bit im going to leave a mesage for francky about the carts mark it wiil work in your real ar15 they are meant to work great from what i hear. mark i thought that they might be available from a few ar specalist places in the uk the model gun market is slow does anybody know if it was better before airsoft took over

Post by Mark

The actual 5.56 (.223) brass WILL cycle through the Marushin M16/XM177. I have tried them in my XM177 before in the past. The modelgun market was extremely strong before the introduction of the airsoft guns in 1985. But, the modelgun hobby is still going strong and I doubt that it will disappear soon..
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Madmike

Ah come on! This ruins every M4! It is a handy, lightweight and easy to use carbine, not a LMG!

Post by Spencerman

I bow to Mikes superior knowledge here. 30 rounds is cool, 100 may be great, but it is not meant to be.
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Post by Mark

MadMike wrote:

Ah come on! This ruins every M4! It is a handy, lightweight and easy to use carbine, not a LMG!

Can you say melt the barrel? Yes, I too agree that the M16 was designed form the outset to be a light weight rifle so the soldier could cary alot of ammunition for it at the same time. The system has become too heavy with all of the crap that they have placed on the rifle now...

Post by gavin

mark wrote:

Can you say melt the barrel? Yes, I too agree that the M16 was designed form the outset to be a light weight rifle so the soldier could cary alot of ammunition for it at the same time. The system has become too heavy with all of the crap that they have placed on the rifle now...

yuor right mark people are always saying the ar is so light weight thats why i like it then they have ris surefires lazers 203 beta c mags and to make it worse they now use flat top ars taking the best two things off an ar the carry hanle and the great sights

Post by Madmike

Regarding the rear sight of the M16 I have to say this is not too good after all if you are used to the Heckler & Koch rear sights on the MP5 or G3/HK33 series ...

Post by Mark

MadMike wrote:

Regarding the rear sight of the M16 I have to say this is not too good after all if you are used to the Heckler & Koch rear sights on the MP5 or G3/HK33 series ...

Yes, I have to agree with MadMike on this point as not only are the HK rear sights easy to use, they are also "soldier proof" as you need a special HK tool to adjust the elevation. Also, the windage is locked in place by a fillips headed screw. The only chice that the soldier gets to choose in the field is the diopter size which is selected easily by rotating the sight "drum" to any of the 4, numbered positions.
The M16A2 sights are great but, they aren't soldier proof! As the adjustments can be played with at any time.

Post by MadMike

Regarding the BetaC I doubt if it would feed modelgun carts correctly. Bear in mind that these carts are "missing the bullet", thus being much shorter ...

Post by gavin

i was trying to think of a way to fix that but as i have no diagrams or detailed pictures i could not come up with anything

I have not seen a beta drum mag so I might be talking out of my backside here but...

Is the drum anything like a Thompson's drum? Could you make / have made a nylon or some other low friction material ring that could be attached to the drum's top cover?
Maybe even thin sheet steel could be used for the ring, with support spacers behind it to bridge the gap where the bullet's heads should be?

I'm thinking here that the ring would be thick enough to space out the gap between the lid and the cartridges?
All you need is something to keep the cartridges upright isn't it?

Cerwyn
_________________
Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by gavin

cerwyn have you got any photos as i could not make any sense of what you where saying and have never seen a thompson drum then again its probably just me being thick

Post by Mark

MadMike wrote:

Regarding the BetaC I doubt if it would feed modelgun carts correctly. Bear in mind that these carts are "missing the bullet", thus being much shorter ...

Yes, good point MadMike. However, remember that the Marushin 30 round magazine (that we both thankfully have found) doesn't have a ramp or spacer in it just like the real AR magazines..

Post by Mark

gavin wrote:

mark in a post before you said you have a real ar could you compare mags

I have already compared the MGC and the Marushin magazines to my real AR magazines. The MGC magazines (stamped steel 20 and 30 rounders) have a metal, spot-welded-in cartridge spacer at the front of the magazine. This spacer doubles as a supplemental feed ramp as well as a spacer to take up the space created by the MGC/Marushin cartridges lack of a bullet. Also, the MGC magazines have a slight external diameter and magazine catch difference comared to the real AR magazines.
The Marushin 20 round (steel) magazines also have the MGC like, spacer in them. Again, these are used for the same reasons. Now, the Marushin 30 round magazines (aluminum) do not feature the spacer/ramp. They use a standard length cartridge follower and these are interchangeable with the real AR followers. Again, the Marushin magazines have different diameters than the real magazines.
Neither the MGC or the Marushin magazine wells will accept real Ar 15/M16 magazines without modifying the magazine or the wells to fit.

gavin wrote:

cerwyn have you got any photos as i could not make any sense of what you where saying and have never seen a thompson drum then again its probably just me being thick

Tell you what, I'll try drawing up some sketches based on a Thompson drum. I haven't seen a beta mag, so like I said I might be talking out of my backside but I'll try getting my ideas on some paper for you...
I'll be as quick as I can mate!
Cerwyn

Post by gavin

that would be great cerwyn