Lots of Questions

*** Originally posted by mark n ***

Hello,

I just started reading all about model guns because I am directing a film for my senior thesis in film school. http://milkmanthefilm.com

I have quite a few questions after doing lots of searching.
First of all, I live in California, so i don't know if it is a pain to import from Japan without the orange tip.

I want to purchase a MGC m1921 Thompson from dentrinity because it seems they are the cheapest at $285 + $60 shipping. Also, I need to purchase at least 40 more caps, which do not need to look neccessarily realistic, but I need them to eject. I was looking at the 7mm Marushins at http://uniquecanes.com/new/item_ammo.php but I have no idea if they work with this gun. I can't believe the regular MGC caps are over $20 for 10 cartridges!

I plan on selling the gun once the film is finished, as it would be cheaper for me than renting one for $200 a week from a prop house. Any advice?

*** Originally posted by ljerr2 ***

Welcome to the forum! I am pretty new here, but I can tell you so far this is an excellent forum! There is a downside, though. The darker side of model guns. THEY ARE ADDICTIVE!
Seriously, they are very cool. The MGC M1921 is a very cool item. It is very realistic, very heavy - lots of metal and REAL wood. MGC also has a really good reputation for function.
Be careful on the distinction between cartridges and caps. Two different things - you need them both. The cartridges are the brass "shells" that are loaded into the mag and ejected when fired. You must load each shell with a cap in order for it to function, ie, blowback. The caps are not reusable, but the cartridges are. You will need 7mm caps for this item.
I have used Den quite a bit for airsoft and some model gun stuff, but that was before I found this forum. There is a guy with the call tag of francky (on this forum) that you should look up before purchasing ANY model gun item. He is in Japan and has quoted me some really good prices - about the same as Den, maybe a couple dollars cheaper and the real savings is on the shipping to the US. Den puts it to you on the shipping. Francky can also get you caps (you can't get those from Den). Unique Canes (AJ) is also a good source for caps stateside. I have dealt with him before and he is top notch at responding to emails and sending out your order quickly - FedEx.
Good luck!

*** Originally posted by mark n ***

Ok. Thank you for clarifing. That should make things quite a bit cheaper, I thought you guys actually spent neary $2 per shot which would be insane. Now it makes sense that they are refillable.

*** Originally posted by illuminati ***

heh yea the cartridges are much like your average brass casings on real rounds. You unscrew them and pop a cap in, simple as that really. These are then loaded like real rounds would be into a real gun, and fired in much the same way.

Be aware that the guns "arent" that loud and do not sound like a real gun, but i guess you'll be able to dub over with proper gunshot sounds as your doing a movie. But without having a real gun, or deact etc you wont get anything that looks as realistic with proper shell ejection etc. They are actually quite often used in asian movies (full budget films)

also, yea id recommend talking to francky, he's like our personal model-gun shop here on this forum lol.

*** Originally posted by spencerman ***

Definately talk to Francky. He would be able to give you a very good price for whatever it is that you need, guns cartidges magazines and caps, and he can also help by advising you as to what may work best for you. He has experience with the whole orange tip thing as well. You can also get a type of cartridge called the real look cartridge, which is exctly that. They have all the .45 etc markings on the rear of the shell and the tip is a different colour to make it look like a real bullet. These are great for close up shots or for slow motion that will show the round being chambered etc. Although the guns are not as loud as real guns, depending on the type of boom that you are using ad where you position it may eliminate the need to overdub the sound. They are also great for use in film as they do not emit a dangerous charge from the barrel, unlike blank firers, so they can be used in close range also. You will find a few videos dotted around on this forum that show the sort of result that can be achieved very easily on your home computer with reguards to overdubbing the sound or adding muzzle flash. You can also find more videos of modelguns, tommy guns in particular at www.modelguns.co.uk or www.modelguncollector.co.uk .

Welcome to the forum by the way.

*** Originally posted by figaro ***


You'll find it difficult to rent a firing Tommy gun for $200 a week in CA.
If any of the prop houses quoted you this price they failed to tell you that you would need a licensed machine gun handler, at approx $400 for a ten hour day (ISS, Gibbons, Tristano, etc.) And also that the blanks are 75cents each and you can only use blanks purchased from the rental company.
The type of model guns on this site are sometimes rented in their metal form as back ground weapons (Universal Studios prop department has a huge collection of MGC revolvers for use in their police belts, most modern prop houses use glued up softair pistols, now), usually the prop houses will provide rubber or softair weapons strengthened by being filled with fiberglass. Back ground weapons are commonly mistreated, so anything that is expensive to replace is avoided for practical as well as economic reasons.
I highly recommend Mike Tristano in Los Angeles as a handler (I'm not sure if this kind of recommendation is allowed, if it isn't then feel free to remove this line), he can also work under ISS's license, I have rented M2 .50 calibers from them, M60 machine guns and many, many others. Mike also has about five hundred fully licensed/registered movie adapted guns.
Model guns are a great hobby, but they have proved very impractical on a film set. I have a few of them and enjoy them (not everyone who works in Hollywood, or makes movies in Hollywood is anti-gun. Quite the opposite. The truth is, and always has been, that Hollywood is simply a sometimes ugly reflection of the entertainment that America wants to spend it's money on. Sad and frustrating as that is.)
However, if you found someone to rent you a model gun with cartridges for $200, I'd say that was a better idea than buying your own one, just make sure you have insurance, we did $2700 damage to six transferable AK's last month (we were in Ventura county on the beach, salt water and guns don't mix).
I have spent a lot of money and time investigating the economic and legal ways of getting fully automatic blank fire onto film. From the electronic non-guns manufactured solely for the motion picture industry to a custom made select fire M4 by Mark Kessler of airsoftmadness.com, it is pretty tough.
The M4 was $2650 including four mags and 2000 rounds of custom blank.
He is building a Glock 18 in 8mm for approx $600.
Schoesslers SSroom sells full auto ppsh's in a custom designated blank caliber, too ($1600, I think, and a long wait, I ordered an MP40 that they were working on, and have not heard anything in three months). All of these custom creations have to pass an ATF board, that also involves a test where an engineer with tools attempts to convert the gun to fire a single live round. Also, in CA, per the DOJ, you must strictly avoid a magazine that holds more than ten rounds and will fit in an actual firearm.
In the UK they sell some cutom made blank SMG's but they are top venting, and classed as a machine gun in the US, so no use whatsoever.
I have an MGC Tommy Gun, it has worked in a lot of pictures in the background, but it just isn't practical as a firer.
Feel free to contact me with any questions, I'll gladly put you in contact with any of guys I have worked with. Also, depending on which county/jursidiction you are filming in, your state/city location permit fee will increase if you are shooting/weilding weapons, you may also be required to have a police officer and or a fire marshall present, $300-400 per eight hour day, on set.
When I was first starting out (ten or so years ago), I tried to avoid this last fee, shooting in down town LA on a Sunday, we were spotted instantly by a motorcycle cop, and closed down. If you are not in LA you might have better luck stealing shots.
Jesse Johnson.

*** Originally posted by mark n ***

Some great information in this thread. Thanks everyone