Modelguns Future in Britain (Politics)

Post by metradio

mark wrote:

We haven't talked about this subject for sometime..I wonder if this will ever see the light of day during Blairs administration. Is there any new news on this bill?

From another forum dated 10th Nov 2006:

Quote :

ROYAL ASSENT
11.43 am
Message to attend the Lords Commissioners:
The House went:—and, having returned:
Mr. Speaker (in the Clerk’s place at the Table):I have to acquaint the House that the House has been to the House of Peers, where a Commission under the Great Seal was read, authorising the Royal Assent to the following Acts:
Civil Aviation Act 2006
Fraud Act 2006
Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006
Parliamentary Costs Act 2006
Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006

The text above has been taken from Hansard, the VCR Bill has now passed recieved Royal Assent.
The bill is now effectively set in stone and cannot be changed without going once more through the parliamentary process.
We now wait to find out when the bill will affectively start.

Post by Mark

Hmm, Bad news there..

Still, there just might be something that could be done to revise the bill if enough people where to raise the issue to the forefront. However, I must admit I am ignorant as to how your parliamentry system works.

It is sad that this will become law in the near future and it will effect the modelgun market in the UK considerably when it is instituted. All that I can say, is get the models that you want now.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by 8ace

Just read this on

http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Violent_Crime_Reduction_Act_2006

It seems to be more reader friendly than the official document. Sadly it still means we are all screwed in the UK BUT WE SHOULD BE USED TO IT BY NOW

Imitation firearm

[edit]Section 36: Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms
Section 36 makes it an offence to manufacture, import or sell a realistic imitation firearm. It includes a power to make regulations to provide for exceptions, exemptions and defences to the new offence. Realistic imitation firearms are defined by section 38.

Subsection (1) applies the offence to a person who:

manufactures or sells a realistic imitation firearm;
modifies an imitation firearm to become a realistic imitation firearm; or
imports, or causes to be imported, an imitation firearm.
Subsection (2) applies defences in Section 37 to the offence. These defences allow for the continuing availability of realistic imitation firearms for certain specific legitimate purposes.

Subsection (3) allows the Secretary of State to make regulations to provide for exceptions and exemptions to the offence, and to provide for further defences in respect of the offence. Subsection (4) allows for exceptions, exemptions and defences to be based on the giving of approvals or consents, either for particular cases or for types of cases. Subsection (5) requires the regulations to be set out in a statutory instrument and to be subject to the negative resolution process in Parliament.

Subsections (7) and ( provide HM Revenue & Customs with a power to seize items imported into Great Britain in contravention of this section.

Subsection (9) makes the offence a summary offence with a maximum penalty of 51 weeks imprisonment or a £5,000 fine, or both. Subsection (10) sets the maximum term of imprisonment to 6 months but this will increase to 51 weeks in England and Wales after the commencement of the sentencing provisions in section 281(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003.

[edit]Section 37: Specific defences applying to the offence under s.36
Section 37 sets out defences to the offence under section 36. Subsections (1) and (2) makes it a defence to show that the sale etc of realistic imitation firearm was for the purposes of a museum or gallery; for theatre, film or television productions; for specified historical re-enactments; or for Crown service. Subsection (3) provides a defence for business to import realistic imitation firearms for the purposes of modifying them so that they cease to be realistic imitations. Subsection (4) provides that for a defence to be shown, a person must adduce sufficient evidence of it and the contrary must not be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Under subsection (2) the Secretary of State will have the power to make regulations to specify which historical re-enactments will benefit from the defence in subsection (1). This enables the exception for historical re-enactments to be confined to bona fide organisations. The regulations will be subject to the negative resolution procedure.

Subsection (7) defines "historical re-enactment" as any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past. It also defines "museum or gallery" as including any institution, accessible by the public, which has as one of its purposes the preservation, display and interpretation of material of historical, artistic or scientific interest.

[edit]Section 38: Meaning of "realistic imitation firearm"
Section 38 explains what is meant by the term "realistic imitation firearm". The definition of "imitation firearm" for the purposes of this section is that used in the Firearms Act 1968, namely any thing which has the appearance of being a firearm whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile. Subsection (1) defines "realistic imitation firearm" as an imitation firearm which has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm. It does not include a de-activated firearm or an antique imitation firearm. The effect of this exception for de-activated firearms is that it will still be possible to de-activate a firearm without committing the offence in section 36(1)(a) of manufacturing a realistic imitation firearm.

Subsection (2) provides that an imitation firearm is not to be regarded as distinguishable from a real one if it could only be distinguished by an expert, on close examination or as a result of an attempt to load or fire it. Subsection (3) provides that in determining whether an imitation is distinguishable from a real one, its size, shape and principal colour must be taken into account. An imitation is to be regarded as distinguishable if its size, shape or principal colour is unrealistic for a real firearm. In this connection, subsections (4), (5) and (6) provide a power for the Secretary of State to make regulations (subject to the negative resolution procedure) specifying dimensions and colours which would be regarded as unrealistic.

Subsection (7) defines "deactivated firearm" as being an imitation firearm that was a firearm but has been rendered incapable of firing. A "real firearm" is defined as a firearm of an actual make or model of modern firearm, or a firearm of a description that makes it look like it belongs to a category of firearms.

Subsection ( defines "modern firearm" as any firearm other than one the appearance of which would tend to identify it as having a design and mechanism dating before 1870. Subsection (9) provides that the colour of an imitation or real firearm includes whether it is made of transparent material.

Subsection (10) has the effect that a firearm which has been marked and certified as deactivated in accordance with the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 will be presumed to be a deactivated firearm for the purposes of this section.




[edit]Section 39: Specification for imitation firearms
Section 39 applies where imitation firearms are still permitted to be manufactured, imported or sold and requires them to be constructed in accordance with specifications laid down in regulations by the Secretary of State. The definition of 'imitation firearm' for the purpose of this section is the same as that for section 38.

Subsection (1) provides a power for the Secretary of State to make regulations specifying how imitation firearms must be constructed. For example this will enable the imposition of a requirement that all blank-firing imitations be constructed in such a way that it is impossible to attempt to convert them into firearms firing live ammunition. Subsection (2) makes it an offence to manufacture or import an imitation firearm which does not conform to those specifications. It also makes it an offence to modify an imitation firearm so that it ceases to conform to the specifications, or to modify a real firearm to create an imitation that does not conform to the specifications.

Subsection (3) makes the offences summary offences with a maximum penalty of 51 weeks imprisonment or a £5,000 fine, or both. Subsection (4) sets the maximum term of imprisonment to 6 months but this will increase to 51 weeks in England and Wales after commencement of the sentencing provisions in section 281(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003.

Subsection (5) allows the regulations to provide that an imitation firearm is to be presumed to conform with the specifications if it has been certified to this effect in accordance with arrangements set out in the regulations.

Subsection ( requires the regulations to be set out in a statutory instrument and to be subject to the negative resolution process in Parliament.

Post by Doc

Yes its expected the ACT (yes its called an ACT, not Bill any longer ) will be in force January 2007 with some estimates saying it will be the 1st of Jan.
I`d hate to think of the consequences to anyone's collection if caught trying to import after this date .

(unless you fit into one of the exemptions and can prove said exemption)

anyone with a large collection fancy turning their front room into a museum ??????

DOC

p.s a lot of people are going to be asking santa for interesting things this year !!!
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Phil Genovese

Wow. That last post makes it all pretty clear. Ya can't even paint an orange cast pistol black to make it look more realistic without being in clear violation. That is just insane... time for a revolution you guys. Get your model guns together and march to Parliament!!

Phil
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Check out our eBay seller list!

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=private-punchy-airsoft&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=200

Well and truly shafted then aren't we?

So if we can't purchase, sell, import any realistic model gun once the Act is in place where do we stand with spare parts, cp rounds and caps?
Presumably BB's and Gas etc could be illegal too?

If these items are also deemed illegal our existing collections will become wallhangers?

What would be case if we ALL joined reenactment groups... would that enable us to continue as we are?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Doc

For a start any re-enactment group wishing to keep its integrity is going to want to ensure all its members have the correct kit , I re-enact and you can spend quite a lot of money to get your kit together.
Secondly being a re-enactor only gives you a reasonable excuse to be able to import /buy a realistic replica pertaining to that impression .
Basically if you do any forces in WW2 then I think you could justify buying any WW2 weapon .
I have seen Germans use Stens, M1s, PPSHs and all sorts and the same goes for the Allies.
However this won`t mean you can go an buy a USP or M4A1 as a court would argue that has nothing to do with your impression.

I think Airsoft gets an exemption if they follow the same rules as re-enactors (i.e set up organised groups with carded members and have public liability insurance etc)

The only difference with airsoft is that they will get to use any period weapon as I dont think airsoft games are normally restricted to a set period (although there has been one ww2 one)
I`m not 100% on this airsoft so dont quote me.

spare parts I think will be ok as long as they are not major parts as that may constitute building a replica if you were to import frames/slides

caps /cartridges no problem as these are required for your legally owned/purchased replicas .

The time for any collector in the UK to buy any modelgun is drawing to a close I`m afraid .

Oh yes and you will still be legally allowed to purchase ANY deactivated firearms from ANY period.

I really don`t know if I want to live over here anymore .................

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Living in this Country is becoming less and less desirable as it is.

I can understand, and support fully, committed Re-enactor Groups wishing to maintain their integrity and being careful about who they accept as members. Political extremists, for example, not to mention the basic criminal wishing to have access (even if they had to resort to stealing them) to blank firing weapons could be disastrous to any bona fide organisation.

I have not mentioned this on the open forum before as there's been no need to, but I am disabled. I broke my neck a few years ago but still have a keen and enthusiastic interest in History, the Second World War in particular. Being able to build a collection of WW2 memorabilia, helmets, headgear, field equipment etc etc is my main hobby as such. Model Guns such as MP40's Thompsons, and the like have added greatly to my collection.
I had made enquiries about joining a Re-enactment Group before my accident, but, like a lot of things, it went onto the 'back burner' for awhile and I never got around to it. I use a wheelchair now, permanently, so being able to actively re-enact anything is impossible, unless I lay in a stretcher and re-enacted being wounded!

Three questions then really:

Do some Re-Enactor Groups have associate members, non-combatants as it were, possibly helping out with the administration, research organising events?

If a person, disabled or not, was an associate member, would that formal membership then allow the purchase of model guns, albeit specific to the period?

Or would the fact that disability made handling and firing any weapon impossible take away any reasons to buy, thus giving the Police sufficient reason to prosecute?
My Shotgun Certificate was taken off me and my shotgun had to be surrendered to them for crushing once they learned I couldn't use it any more!

As things look now, we can keep our existing collections, buy caps and necessary spares but if, or should that be, when, the Law extends to banning ownership, what do we do then?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Spencerman

I dont want to sound like I am playing Devils Advocate now, but you made some pretty interesting arguments there Cerwyn. I wonder if, becasue of your disability and as you say obvious reasons that you cannot join a reenactment group as an active participant, then by not allowing you to continue to collect memorabilia the way that you are surely would class as descrimination against you because of your disability? I would have imagined from many of your posts that you would be very well suited for reenactment, and must admit that I was, until now, surprised that you did not. I would like to hope that the 'law' would obviously use discretion in cases such as yours, but we already know that it does not, so the future there is bleak. I feel that it does not make the blindest bit of difference what is said or done, when this stupid bill falls on its arse and fails to accomplish what it sets out to do, as it surely will because it contradicts itself into such a garble of misinterpretation and ununderstandable nonsense, then another bill will be passed to rectify the failings of this one, with probably a blanket ban imminent. This will surely be the argument, that because the exemptions afforded to reenactors and theatre groups, film industry and airsoft, the use of firearms in criminal acts has continued to grow, and therefor the only way to stop it is to take away any other guns from any remaining law abiding citizen. No more kids playing cowboy. Who knows, maybe even no more kids playing with action man, as he has replica guns that are realistic, albeit only half an inch long. Where do you draw the line? Myself, I am going to become an outlaw, and that way I get to keep my guns!
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Post by Mark

Wow, I don't know what to say guys. You certainly have some serious collecting to do in the few days that you left. Here in the U.S. we went through a mini version of this bill (or act) in 1987 that required the orange muzzle markings as well as trademark removal. Although, that may sound extremely trivial compared to what you face today, it was still a huge blow to many people in the hobby at the time.

All of us, for whatever reason we have, enjoy firearms. Unfortunately for us, there are small groups of people that hate and fear firearms and their owners to the point that they will do anything to stop us. It is these groups that constantly seek to destroy all firearms with a religious zeal damn the consequences...Governments of course, go along with these small groups as it adds to their insulation from the common peasantry.

These small groups are full of social engineers that seek to use public opinion via the press against you and our hobbies as violence (or even perceived violence) sells Newspapers/TV spots. Headlines like GUNS FOUND IN SCHOOL ROOM etc. They of course, don't tell the public the full story, they are just looking for the emotional "hook" story to catch everyone's eye this is merely meant to sell papers not to shill for gun control.

As for the UK becoming less desirable, this too is happening in the U.S. Although many in Europe the UK and elsewhere may be thrilled about our current political change here in the U.S. I am not. As it has elevated many anti-gun politicians into top government positions. This will mean very bad news in the next few years to firearms owners especially in 2008 if the Whitehouse too, is taken by an anti gun politician.

Believe me, I want to keep my guns (both real and modelguns) and they are not just a hobby to me that I can abandon and move on to another when they come to confiscate what guns that I have. Besides, look what all governments and anti-gun freaks want to do with your firearms:




No careful, pre/post 95 deactivations here! Just the shear, torch and the smelter. Thousands, if not millions of surplus guns get this treatment here in the U.S. through gun confiscation, "buy backs" stupid people and the government getting rid of surplus WW2 firearms. They don't care how rare they may be they just destroy them. There was once, a very beautiful Colt GoldCup .45 in that pile of demilled .45's and two (three?) Smith&Wesson .357's! This is the future for guns guys....

Firearms enthusiasts in Europe and the UK are lucky that they allow you to own deactivated firearms instead of cutting them up..But, things change don't they? Firearms and owners in the UK used to be respected and the sport of target shooting as well as hunting was popular. Those that live in the UK you might ask What happened? Where did the change occur? And why? And the most important, can the situation be reversed? If so, how?

The questions are important as where are you going to go and worse, can you afford to go to another country? The UK can be saved for firearms ownership but it is a long-up-hill-all-the-way battle and due to your parliamentary system of government it is a near impossible battle too. But, The UK has seen worse and has survived..Will the firearms hobby?
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Last edited by mark on Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post by Spencerman

Personally, I look at some of the older antique guns and wish I could afford them. Some of the older 1870's type guns are real works of art. Expertly crafted with exquisite detail, details that even todays replica firearms and models cannot compare to. There is also a history that goes with a gun like that. You hold it, and you know that it has seen some times, not all good, but here you hold a piece of history. If the destruction that appears above in those pictures could save lives in a real world, then I would support it 100%, but the reality is sad that it wont. You will destroy a few guns that have been used for criminal purposes, but the majority of guns destroyed are probably legal ones that have been surrendered, thanks to stupid changes in the law. And what of classic historical firearms? If I were to use the Colt Eaglemaker that was used by Wyatt Earp at the OK Corrall to kill someone, does that warrant that it be destroyed? This is a gun, that, through historical significance has killed more than one person in its time, so maybe we should destroy it anyway. It is evil. If I wanted to kill someone, and couldnt get my hands on a gun to do it, then I would get a knife and use it, if I wanted to. If they banned all knives, and I couldnt get one of those, then I would use a piece of glass, or flint, or something pointy that can stab. Point being, if I wanted to kill someone, I would. The only deterrent for me not doing it would be the punishment. Not punishing innocent people to make a shallow point. I wish people didnt kill each other. I wish we could all live in clouds with rainbows and happy thoughts and fly around like some 70's pop video. The reality is that we dont, and no matter what we do, we will not. Gun control is exactly the same. A dream that will never be realised.
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Post by Mark

The destroyed firearms are not a pretty sight are they?

Although, it really isn't anything worth getting depressed over. It is however worth noting and seeing the destruction of firearms first hand. Guns are fairly simple mechanical devices and they cannot load or fire themselves like some twisted human killers. However a firearm is used, (whether it is used for good or bad) it still doesn't think or have any feelings at all. So, the question is why do we have any empathy towards firearms? Especially when some individual human uses a firearm during his (or her) crime.. As Humans, we seem to like to name cars and all sorts of animate as well as in-animate objects (yes, even firearms) as if they have some sort of human emotional qualities. I would guess that somehow comes from the steady diet of Disney movies: Bambi, CARS etc. that portray animals and mechanical objects as having human qualities.

My way of thinking is that firearms as well as anything mechanical should not be characterized as evil etc. due to their use...
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by MadMike

This is MY rifle. There are many like it, but this is MINE ...

But you are so right, Mark! It is in the nature of mankind. If there wouldn´t be firearms, some people determined to do harm would use knives, clubs or stones. Always have, always will.

Well it seems that British Parliament is determined to turn this Country into some Nambi Pambi state where no-one will be allowed to do anything even remotely risky either to themselves or anybody else.
Believe it or not but Children's Playing Fields are being closed down by Local Councils in case children fall off swings or seesaws...
Chestnut trees are being felled to stop kids collecting Conkers... conkers is, as we all know, dangerous and life treatening ain't it?... (Do you guys in the US know what Conkers are? Maybe not!)
The state is using both obvious and sublime methods to reduce the amount of vehicles on our roads to reduce pollution, congestion, and accidents causing deaths and injury. Motorcycles will be a thing of the past if Europe gets it's way, the EU are actively trying to ban them too.
What happened to freedom of choice?
George Orwell's vision of the future, 1984, was absolutely spot on, the only thing he got wrong was the date.

Mankind as a species is a natural risk taker and a predatory carnivor. Without taking the odd risk we wouldn't learn anything would we?
Fast cars and bikes appeal to men because they get the blood flowing, we thrive on adrenalin. A gun is exciting because it can be dangerous, of course guns are designed to kill, nothing else. A .50 cal Browning wasn't desiged for shooting tin cans was it now? In times of war they're used to kill people that's what they're for! In times of peace we choose to shoot paper targets or the like, maybe even animals and birds to eat. Handling a gun, loading a gun, firing a gun is exciting, pure and simple. It appeals to that side of our nature doesn't it. Surely the vast majority of us have evolved into responsible adults that know the difference beween right and wrong? When to use a gun, or not?
Used responsibly and safely, the only harm comes to a tin can or a paper target. Sure the criminal will use a gun to kill or maim but take away the gun and he'll use a Knife, a bottle, a brick, his fists.
If he is intent on causing harm, he'll use anything, so where will this State stop?
Ban real guns, toy guns, hunting knives, kitchen knives, pen knives, nail files, scissors, sewing needles, Motorcycles, cars, cut down trees, it'll be ladders next in case we fall, will they ban us from going outside next in case we hurt ourselves or somebody else?
Sorry to rant on a bit guys, I'm just pissed off that I can't even be allowed to buy a toy gun anymore in case I'm stupid enough to take it outside and point it at somebody... F***ing Hell.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Claymore

I have been informed that it will now be next yr before the bill takes effect, when next yr i have no idea and i think even the politicians are stumped as to how the hell it can work considering all the amendments and exemptions they have added on. our problem on this one is politicians refuse to admit they are wrong and so this flawed bill will go through even though it will cause more problems that it will solve just so they dont have to admit the idiot who thought this up (yes mrs blears YOU!!) was wrong

Post by Mark



Politics= POLI (many) TICS (small blood thirsty animals)

Actually, politicians aren't (all) ignorant. They are, in many cases, sure that they are doing what is right for the general public by making the general public safer. But, you see the problem is, that they don't have to follow their own rules. They always seem to ignore what the honest, careful person wants while pushing for the most radical "solution"

Why? This is due to many reasons: Small (but well financed) special interest groups that seek (like in this case) guncontrol. Then, you have the fact that the entire political world is a "cushy" job that features lots of perks that would be, if in the private sector, like a millionaire. Plus, the travel expenses are low (if it costs anything at all) for them so they can be tourists for nothing. If you where a politician, wouldn't you want to be re-elected again and again?

Now, there are many nascent (new) politicians that start out as good people that are exposed to these perks and they end up exploiting the system for themselves. Now, some of the new politicians will remain as true public servants and they do try to (if not completely) stop the bad legislation that they see passed through. So, as bad as politicians sound, some still can be worth having around.

Now, many people that I have met here in the U.S. think that we will when they come to confiscate our guns, gun owners will fight the government to prevent them from taking their guns. I don't think this will happen (and I don't want it to happen) as I think that we are better than that. I think that many that say that they will fight the government will give up their guns the fist time that they see the SWAT team show up on their door step. Many people here fantasize about fighting the government.

Their thinking of course, is that after a hard clean day on the battlefield, they can simply go home, kiss the wife, watch a good game on the T.V. and have a few beers. The truth is a little harder: its about fighting a guerrilla war replete with snipers, mud,rain, snow, lack of food, shelter etc. Now, I as well as many others, don't want that. So, its our job as individuals to see that the right people are elected with the ballot box not the bullet box.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Doc

Yes I`d never advocate shooting a politician .... well not unless you were going to eat them afterwards .......

What I feel sad about is that this has all stemmed from our country sliding down a nasty slope of increased gun crime . This however has not come about from the availability of guns (certainly not bloody toy ones) however it has come about from people loosing respect in authority and to some degree an " imported culture" of its no big deal to quote "pop a cap in someones ass ".. even this very statement makes the idea of firing a projectile into someone sound trivial .
(I`m not blaming anyone in particular before chaps get offended)

Not so long ago the only chance of being shot at over here was by some hardened east end thug tearing away from a big bank heist.
Today you are as likely to be shot at by someone because you flip the finger in your car (happened to a mate of mine in Birmingham)

Sadly the VCR bill will do nothing to stop this happening as the people it really needs to target won`t give a stuff for the law .

Apologies for the rant but if I thought banning toy guns in the UK would save a single innocent persons life I would I would hand them all in tomorrow .

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Spencerman

MadMike wrote:

So it won´t be in power on January 1st? That should give us a little more time to get what we need ...

That is next year! Anyway, I think that it is all your fault. Not you personally, but the group of people close to us in Europe, Interceptor etc. I think that you want us to get a ban on model guns, that way we have to get rid of them. The closest people to buy them is you guys! Loads of guns for sale all at once means very competative prices, so you are already saving your pennies for a bargain basement deal on guns. I know your name and I know your game. The what we need you refer to is money to buy all our banned guns! Well, it wont work, we are on to you!

Post by Mark

Not much time left is there?

What is really sad is that many of the modelgun sales outside of Japan comes from the UK. And the loss of that market will certainlly be felt by the Japanese modelgun manufacturers. That might slow their sales considerably and possibly kill any new (if any) modelguns that they might be planning to make.

MadMike, moves like this are usually kept quiet by governments who don't really want to reveal their new law(s) until it is far to late to stop them.
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by 8ace

This is from the BASC website

VIOLENT CRIME REDUCTION ACT

The Violent Crime Reduction Bill has now completed all of its Parliamentary stages and received Royal Assent on 8 November 2006 - it is now the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. The act will come into effect on 6 April 2007.

The Act will:

Introduce a new offence of using another person to look after, hide or transport a dangerous weapon.
Increase the age of consent for purchasing an air weapon to 18 and introduce a requirement so air weapons can only be sold or transferred via registered firearms dealers and on a face-to-face basis.
Introduce a ban on the manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms.
Introduce provisions to limit the availability of knives and crossbows to young people by raising the age limit for their purchase to 18.
Increase the maximum sentence for carrying a blade or point in a public place or school without good reason from two to four years

I have emailled my MP to see if there is any information about the start date

Post by Mark

So. When does the violent thought act become law? I should be arrested as I am thinking about some violence now!
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by Spencerman

MadMike wrote:

Well, if it will be in power on January 1st, this would mean not more than 31 days left. Shouldn´t it be public then yet?

They normally wait until AFTER the new law is in place, and then tell you as you are being charged for being in breach of it. Gun laws in the UK are a complete farce, as it has long been the responsibility of the shooter to keep up to date with gun legislations and changes to them, not for the authorities to let you know if there is a change. Funny, scince all of us law abiding chaps are registered and they know exactly where we are. I know that models are slightly different, but imagine getting done for speeding in your car, and the copper says to you that you are in a 30 limit doing 60, but there are no speed signs posted anywhere. Welcome to gun legislation logic.

Post by Mark



Ah yes, the proven tactic of make the law(s) and not actively enforce them. Why is this done? I have a theory on this. IF the government where to actively and aggressively go after all of the owners and prosecute them under the full extent of the law(s) there would be thousands of court cases and abuse claims filed in a matter of days that would clog the court system for years. Many of the abuse stories would make very bad press for the government and quite possibly change public views on firearms. If the truth where to get out that firearms laws didn't really work then the carefully woven cloth of lies would un-ravel and many people that thought that they where safe would see that they truly aren't...

You see, the name of the government game, is to look tough and pro-active on crime while allowing the self policing gun owners to be honest and quiet. After all, we are the only ones affected by these onerous (and quite silly) laws. Politicians don't like the truth reveled to the general public that gun laws do not prevent murder,crime etc. Guns have no soul or conscience but, people do.

Murder is illegal isn't it? Yet, people still regularly kill others with or without guns...The murders are usually caught (due to modern forensic science) tried and in some rare cases sent to prison. Where, they will stay for a few years and learn more about crime in general. Then, they are released due to overcrowding in the prison system. Why is this? There are many factors but, the main one is governments makes laws just to sway public opinion favorably toward their party or parties. The more laws that they generate, they manufacture more criminals. This then, leads to the need for more law enforcement, the more law enforcement, the more prisons, the more prisons, the more money needed to make new prisons etc. Its a vicious cycle that drains the tax payer and adds to the decline of civilization as we know it.
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Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by 8ace

Below is a reply from the met police firearms section regarding the implementation of the VCR ACT

Quote :

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your email - a reply from Firearms;
I have not been notified of any date(s) yet. Suggest the Home Office might be the enquirer's best bet.

EMail Office
New Scotland Yard

I have yet to hear from my MP or the home office

Post by 8ace



I have had a reply from the home office

Quote :

Dear Martin,
Thank you for your message of 2 December about the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006. I have been asked to reply.
In order for the various sections of the Act to come into force, a Statutory Instrument (SI) must be laid before and agreed by Parliament. The SI for the Violent Crime Reduction Act has not yet been drafted, so a date on which it will take force has yet to be set. All I can tell you is that it should be some time in the New Year.

So it is anybody’s guess when it will be implemented:?