Modelguns Future in Britain (Politics)

Post by BRMoore

We have real weapons on the streets being used to kill people by people who dont follow law, yay! lets ban replica's that can't kill people so it ruins it for people who do follow law, Yippy!
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Owner of an M4 Commando. Tapco real steel stock fitted.

Post by metradio

From another forum:

Quote :

...Apparently the provisions relating to the sale of primers will commence on April 6, and the provisions relating to RFDs for sale of airguns, sales to be in person, prohibition of realistic imitation firearms, etc. will commence on October 1...

Post by Doc

I hear the law will be in effect in April and allow until Oct to be fully implemented , I understand this to mean some people will get done from April and EVERYONE will get done after October .
Saying this though the Home office still has not laid out what provisions it is putting into place to allow airsofters to continue .
I do know our re-enacting society has had to add its PLI number (public Liability Insurance) number to all membership cards so our members can proove they are part of a proper recognised club and therefore have a " legit reason " for buying RIFs ...well WW2 ones anyway .

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Claymore

Oh man!! i am angry, just watched the news and yet again its the bloody press on about replicas. This time they get a guy to go into a gunshop to by a replica pistol. this time a co2 177 cal beretta 92 air pistol. of course they dont tell you that they just say replica and compare it to the old brocock air cartridge gun.
so the guy pays £175 then goes down to his local south londen pub wher of course you can just walk in and casually say "who can convert my replica into a live firing weapon" and even though no one knows you a guy gets up " yes mate i can do that £500, F%£&k me for a total of £700 i could buy a real uzi on the streets.
Anyway they make it sound as though reps can be convert by any old Jo with ease and that it will actually work and not blow your own head off.

So yet again misinformation to the public, the press have a hell of lot to answer for at times they really do. once the vcr bill goes through i hope all the UK guys on this forum will like me pester and annoy their MP's asking why gun crime has not stopped even though the reason for the violence has now been banned again.

sorry for the rant guys but this is the only place i can let off steam, no one seems to blame the people who or prepared to shoot or kill otheres they just blame the tool.
AAAAAAGGHHHH annoyed from hornchurch

Post by MadMike

I am really upset about this specific misinformation by the media too. They seem to love easy solutions, regardless if they make any sense, just like our politicans. I wonder whose side those media guys are on ...

Post by Spencerman

claymore wrote:

i hope all the UK guys on this forum will like me pester and annoy their MP's asking why gun crime has not stopped even though the reason for the violence has now been banned again.

Personally, I am not worried about that anymore, as I live in a gun crime free country where gun crime is 0 and people can sleep safe in thier beds, knowing that nobody will break into their house and shoot them. There is no need whatsoever for any law abiding person to have any sort of gun what so ever, no need to even pretend with a banana that you can shoot someone with it, because guns dont even exist. You dont need to defend yourself in your own home or on the street, and particularly not with a gun, because guns are bad and people who have them are evil. Shooting guns in a club is not fun, and there is no need for pest control, so why else would anyone need one. I say that if people want guns then we should increase the sentencing to a mandatory lethal injection, because these sorts of people are no good to society.
Thanks Claymore, now you have started me off! (I was being sarcastic above by the way) Whereas I agree with tougher penalties for criminals who use guns to commit crimes, I also believe in tougher penalties for people who cause death by dangerous driving, I dont call for a ban on transport.

Post by 8ace

I was looking around to see if i could find out any information about the Oct 1st ban (sadly not) but i did find this
It is a PDF file report i came across

Quote :

The Shooting Sports Trust
Home Office Research Study 298 of 2006.
Gun Crime
The market in and use of illegal firearms
Gavin Hales Chris Lewis and Daniel Silverstone
A Critique by Colin Greenwood

Quote :

35. An important caveat relating to imitation firearms should have been
highlighted, but is almost glossed over at page 53 when it is said that ‘several offenders describe having used imitation firearms when they could have got real firearms’ and they refer briefly to findings in two previous studies.
36. Morrison and O’Donnell allocate five pages of their 1994 study to this
problem and they found that 90% of replica users made a conscious decision to use that weapon and 75% claimed that they could have obtained a real firearm. They concluded that replicas were not a weapon of second choice but had been deliberately selected because they were considered satisfactory for the task.
37. If that is correct there were serious implications for the Violent Crime
Reduction Bill which was before Parliament as the research was in progress and which the Report seems to endorse. With a view to reducing the use of imitation firearms in crime, the VCR Act seeks to ban the sale, etc, of realistic imitation firearms. The evidence is that, if it were successful, a large number of robbers who would have used imitation firearms might feel compelled to use the real firearms which, on the evidence presented in this Report and previous reports are readily available to them.

Post by Doc

exactly my thoughts

whilst I`d not ever advocate anyone using a replica gun for nefarious means Id rather they did than feel compelled to take a real one along or a knife for example .

just wait until some scumbag gets let off because his well paid and crafty lawyer says his client was "compelled to take a real firearm because he could not gain easy access to a replica one which he would have preferred "........


DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Erm, hang on a minute, have I understood this correctly? ...

The evidence is that, if it were successful, a large number of robbers who would have used imitation firearms might feel compelled to use the real firearms which, on the evidence presented in this Report and previous reports are readily available to them.

So by taking away RIFs, i.e. Toy Guns, the Robbers will be compelled, reluctantly, to use real ones?
Mr. Robber would much rather use a Toy Gun to hold up a Bank so take away the Toy Gun...
Is that meant to put Mr. Robber off, see the Light and decide to stop Robbing an be a law abiding citizen for ever more?

God Almighty, the Lunatics have taken over the Asylum haven't they?

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by GZ22

I've read this report in the past, and I seriously think that documentation like this, in conjunction with future reports that show how innefective the law has been on this matter since it was passed could be used by lawyers representing a large group of UK pro-gun people (modelgun collectors, retailers, RFD's etc) to demonstrate and campaign for the repeal of those sections of the VCR Act that ban RIF's, on the basis that it has not helped to reduce, but actually increased the number of real firearms offences since the act came inot force. If it can be clearly demonstrated that bannign RIF's didn't help, then we would have astrog case. I'm not saying it would be easy - it would be a long hard fight and everyone would have to stick together under one banner, but it would be worth it and I for one would be fully behind any efforts to do it.

Post by MadMike

Don´t want to put you down but politicians normally don´t withdraw laws they made when they proove to be ineffective or even make things worse. This would mean they were wrong, something that just can´t be. Normally they react with making new laws, or intensify the ineffective laws. At least that´s the way it goes in Germany ...
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"It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over."

Post by Claymore

Guys we all know nothing will improve in fact it will get worse, so what now do they blame things on. Its time to question your local MP and ask why gun crime is still increasing when nothing that even looks like a gun (including a play station ppk) is illegal. We must not stop pressuring our MP's now our hobby has been killed and get answers to why they went down a road that will prove to do nothing.

Post by ricks

I put this on the older thread, but there may be a better chance that it gets seen here.



Ridiculous, isn't it? A sad satire of where things will head...[/img]
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Rick

A blue gun is better than none at all I suppose, quite honestly if it was a decent model that fired pfc rds I'd buy that and repaint it gunmetal.
Illegal maybe, but wouldn't exactly take it to the shops with me.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Spencerman

I might just go and get a real one and paint it bright blue!
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Post by Doc

Posted twice so all you chaps see it (mods : feel free to move or whatever)

I most sincerely apologise if this causes any distress to anyone but its happening.....

http://www.thisishertfordshire.co.uk/news/roundup/display.var.1773181.0.replica_guns_seized_from_collector.php


look mostly like blank guns but its still not good

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by 8ace

I have to say that these news events make me question whether or not to carry on with this hobby

8ace

Post by ricks

Very sad situation - I regret the rudeness of some of my fellow Americans in their comments, though.
Rest assured, My Friends, some of us still prefer to be gentlemen...
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Rick

To be honest Rick, I think some of your fellow countrymen are probably right to mock us as a Nation when things like this go on.

It's us, the voting public that put the Government in power. If they start creating Laws and acting in ways we don't want, then it's time to vote somebody else in.

Laws can't be repealed though can they, but this Country is surely going to the dogs very quickly.

The Govmt. is constantly making ridiculous and pathetic decisions that strips away Great Britain's identity as a Great Nation. We'll soon be, if we aren't already, a puppet dangling off Brussels' strings

I'm sorry to rant about politics here, this isn't the place!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

8ace wrote:

I have to say that these news events make me question whether or not to carry on with this hobby
8ace

Bloody stupid isn't it? Thing is though, now this VCRA is in force we can't even sell our collections if we chose to anyway without falling foul of the Law.
Keep them, out of sight of prying eyes and shit stirrers. Enjoy them in the privacy of your own home.
Way things are, I might have to buy a house in the upper regions of Snowdonia, far away from anything other than sheep. They don't talk, or tell either...
Cerwyn

Post by 8ace

Sadly I think that word of mouth from people you know (innocent of malicious) could do more harm than a stray passer by.

As I type this I am feeling that it would be better to cop up the models I have so that I don't have an armed unit kicking my door down (which has always been an issue but it WILL only get worse)

Post by Spencerman

Anyone who is scared of falling foul of the 'law' after reading that, then please feel free to move your collection of guns to me, I am sure that moving them is still allowed, and the dfinition of moving doesnt just define to a specific place. So, feel free, move away. I may even be able to part with a monitary gesture in return!
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Post by Doc



I think "move" would be classed as "giving away" which I do believe they covered somewhere in the bill.

The police want anything gun looking removed so they can make the decision to "open fire" more easily ...at the moment they are required to engage their brain first

what I was hoping to highlight is be aware the cops will try and bully you into handing your stuff over for free .

Provided your neighbours dont get concerned then no need to panic.

I wonder if this guy was firing blank firers or garden plinking and annoyed his neighbours ??

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Doc wrote:

I think "move" would be classed as "giving away" which I do believe they covered somewhere in the bill.
The police want anything gun looking removed so they can make the decision to "open fire" more easily ...at the moment they are required to engage their brain first :wink:
what I was hoping to highlight is be aware the cops will try and bully you into handing your stuff over for free .
Provided your neighbours dont get concerned then no need to panic.
I wonder if this guy was firing blank firers or garden plinking and annoyed his neighbours ??
DOC

I mentioned this case to my other half this morning. She openly admits to hating my guns with a passion, but, in fairness, she will help me to enjoy them as much as she can, and that does include loading, cleaning, field stripping and repairs to.
However, she could see the stupidity of the Police response this time.
"What next", she asked, "Will they decide that only trained Chefs be given licences and onlythen can they own metal knives?" "Will the rest of us be allowed only plastic cutlery in case we stab somebody?"
GoodPoint.
Either this guy had his guns openly on display in the living room window, or maybe he was firing blanks in the garden. He must have done something to annoy the neighbours somehow or maybe he just had paranoid neighbours seeing things that looked like guns and immediately though "Terrorist" !
Following Phobus' post I wrote a comment to the article asking if any REAL guns had been found... No reply yet...
Cerwyn

Post by Spencerman

I am not too bothered what they classify as what anymore. Move them, give them, or sell them to me, I dont mind or care either way. As far as a hobby goes, and I dont wish to offend anyone here, but as Cerwyn says his other half hates his model guns, how would she feel about model train sets that just go round and round, or battle reenactments where you have lots of little tin men on horses set up on a mock hill, or maybe collecting teapots? Any hobby is rather poitless to a degree, but if it is a resposible hobby that brings you happyness without upsetting anyone, ie, the neighbours, then hey ho whats the problem. Collect pens or rubbers for all I care, all though, having thought about it, maybe not rubbers, they could be dangerous, just think about all the things that you could rub out. We should ban rubbers. There is no place in decent sivilised society for erasers. I dont know whether I told the story of my neighbour plinking with a bb gun in the garden or not. It really took me back to when I was a kid, where there were four or five of them taking it in turns to fire this bb gun. It was a spring powered 92f. I used to have one of those. Now my guns are somewhat more extensive, more powerful, and bigger! Anyway, I could hear this kind of fizz plunk noise as they fired and consequently hit the fence with the pellet. They had no safety shield to prevent an accidental overshot, and no form of break to prevent accidental penetration to the fence. Admittedly, I couldnt see them from my garden, the fence is 6' making it just a bit taller than I am, so I did go and nose out of a window to see what they were doing. I could see that they were all having fun, but I really wanted to go round there and let them use one of mine, but it would have devastated the fence with no protection. For the pistol they were using it wasnt a problem, but I use a proper straw boss if I shoot in the garden ever scince my father got really pissed off with all the holes in his fence! I tend not to shoot in the garden anymore full stop now ever scince my last dog used to hate guns, being an ex police dog, so I created myself a range in the garage, and noone can see me there so I dont need to worry. Anyway, I am drifting away from my original point. I am used to guns. I know guns. I am a pretty good judge of real or fake guns, as like many others here, I notice the little details, such as the wrong sized compensator, or the wrong sort of sight etc. I knew, and I think that any idiot should have been able to realise that the gun they were using was a toy, nothing more. They dont know that I have a veritable arsenal tucked under my bed, but if I was going to shoot a few rounds off from something that would possibly cause alarm, I would have knocked them up and told them before hand. That wouldnt mean that I may not get a visit from the boys in blue, but it would pre empt my neighbours. Funnily enough, my last two sets of neighbours before these ones all knew that I had guns, and one of them was a western enthusiast and collected peacemakers! He is probably responsible for getting me collecting guns, as I always loved to pop over and see his guns as a kid. People should be able to tell the difference by using a little common sense the difference between someone who collects or enjoys some form of replica weapon, and some cowardly bastard who wants to be a terrorist and who wants to maim and murder as many innocent people as possible.
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