VCRA

If the guns for sale are from dealers they will probably (possibly) ask for proof of skirmish site membership before selling them to you.

Reenactor sites also have guns for private sale today. Legally, as DOC said yesterday, it'll be the sellers responsibility to ask for proof the buyer is a rreenactor and entitled to buy.

No doubt lots of people will flaunt the Law anyway risking prosecution (knowingly or otherwise) but it could be a very risky venture buying one without the right paperwork.

Mind you, I've heard Police Officers say thay haven't been briefed about the VCRA at all and didn't even know it existed!

If THEY don't know, what bloody chance have WE got???

Cerwyn

Post by Claymore

emails went round today for it for police but they really dont believe in it so dont expect your every day cop to be interested in it, not really sure who they expect to really enforce this on the individual as yet

Posted Oct 2nd 2007

Trading Standards Intercept and destroy replica guns (Airsoft), On National TV tonight

Spotted this on an A/S forum just now, guess it applies to ALL replicas doesn't it but it ain't just the Police...

"Didn't get all of the details but just watched on TV Trading Standards claiming to have intercepted a shipment of replica guns. the chap discussed the models were imitating AK's and M16's. In the background they had an open crate with airsoft boxes."

I have copied the post and pasted it "as is". I hope the author won't mind my quoting him.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by tommyargue

Hiya.

I've an opinion on this matter. why doesn't everyone just tell the police to go fxxk themselves. Gone are the days when the coppers were the enforcers of law and order, nowa days they're just the enforcers of government policy. By this ban they (the government) are taking away a basic principal, that a person is innocent until proven guilty. This ban is in effect tarring everyone with the same brush. Treating all of you as criminals, I should include myself in that, I live in Ireland and what the UK does, we soon follow.

Post by Mark (Oct 5th 2007)

The police are just doing (or trying to do) their jobs that their bosses are telling them to do. They are not the real problem that you face in the UK. The persons that you need to talk to are your MP's as well as others in the pro-gun side. The fact is that even though you don't have the second amendment (like in the U.S.) to secure your firearms rights, you still have some voice in your version of the NRA. The NRA in the U.S. is politically powerful due to it's membership's voting power more than it's reliance upon the second amendment in our bill of rights. If the British NRA was stronger with millions of pissed-off-ex-firearms-owning-voting Britons then parliament might think twice before making more demands from their "subjects"
_________________
Wanted to buy: MGC Sten MK3....trades?(still)

MGC MP40 Marushin MP40 Nakata MP40 TRC MP40

Modelgun manufacturers, past and present:CMC,CAW,Hudson,HWS,LS,MGC(R.I.P. 1960's~2007) Marushin,Marui,Kokusai,Shoei,Tanaka and Western Arms

Post by tiksom (Oct 5th 2007)

cerwyn wrote:

Trading Standards Intercept and destroy replica guns (Airsoft), On National TV tonight
Spotted this on an A/S forum just now, guess it applies to ALL replicas doesn't it but it ain't just the Police...

...and following a fatal shooting, London Mayor has made a clueless appeal to ban all replicas. He asserts that "half of gun crime" is done with modified replicas :-/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7027244.stm

Quote :

London mayor Ken Livingstone has called for replica guns to be made illegal following the shooting.
[...]
"And now almost half the gun crime in London is people who've bought a quite legal replica gun and spent an afternoon making adjustments that allow them to fire.

Post by Spencerman

So, what about movie prop replicas, such as the Pulse rifle from Aliens or the Deckard blaster from Blade Runner? I assume that these are ok as they are not based on an actual firearm, and therefor could be as real as they come without being an RIF? For anyone who is not aware, this is the blaster:



I am thinking of getting one maybe, I have wanted one for a while, but I am not sure. Just like buying any gun I guess, cant quite make up my mind, too many guns and not enough time!
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Post by Spencerman (Oct 6th 2007)

I was just wondering, as Doc mentioned in another post about the certain exemptions to the Very Cu***ng Ridiculous bill (I edited myself out as I am not feeling too expletive today) and how re-enactors, can have guns depending on what they are reenacting. Production groups like the corrupt BBC are allowed guns to make productions. Servants of the Queen, which is one exemption that I didnt realise, does that apply to all model guns then, even blank firers? And lastly, museums. This was the one that I was wondering about. How do you become a museum, without having to be really really old or something, that is a different use of the word. If you have to be open for so many days a year, could you just not close for maintenance or cleaning on the days which you have to be open for? Could you set an admittance number, of say 1, and then get a mate round, say that you have met your quota and then close the doors to anybody else? Maybe have open days that are available to only certain groups of people, such as forum members from here or something, people who you wouldnt mind popping round for a few beers and to play with your guns etc. as you know that they will respect them. Also, if someone were to set themselves up as a museum, could they then clean up, or should I say, claim some sort of tax relief or benefit from the local Cun*cil?
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Post by 8ace

I did read that the replica arms collectors of films and TV will also be hit by the VCR Act.

Including starwars blasters, blade runner guns, pulse rifles.....etc and probably sonic screwdrivers (well you wouldn't want somebody walking around with one of those would you )

Post by Spencerman

I can understand the Star Wars thing, being as Han Solos blaster was a hardly disguised Mauser, and the same for the Storm Troopers Blaster being a Sterling, but the Pulse rifle, I know that although based on a Tommy gun, is not a real gun at all, and it is only the workings that set it aside as a Tommy gun unless you really really look hard. The same for the Blade Runner Blaster. It is a Non Gun. Surely something that can officially be described as a non gun, cannot possibly be classed as a gun? As for the sonic screwdrivers, they are ok, it is the laser screwdrivers that are affected by the ban. Did you know, just purely out of interest you understand, that if you zap a traffic warden on his high visibility jacket of an evening with a laser on the reflective strip, it amplifies the super conducted light beam and makes him glow up bright red?
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Post by 8ace

Ah the tails of a miss spent youth

I think it all depands on our/your/government definition or "realistic" which seems yet to be classified.

Post by Spencerman (Oct 12th 2007)



Does anyone know if importing this would be legal?



If anyone doesnt know for sure (which is probably everyone as this very confusing rubbish bill is so undefined) then I would be interested to hear opinions. After all, if I were to buy an MP5 copy that was painted pink, that wouldnt at all be a realistic imitation firearm, but it also at the same time wouldnt be an MP5 and it is certainly not realistic looking unless you are Barbie. I know that that wouldnt be allowed, but what of kit guns that are not based on real guns (although I know that the original was based on a bulldog) as they only use certain parts, and even those are not real. Space Precinct blaster for arguments sake is based on Beretta 92 (bbm blank version) and that is obvious, but what of the Noisey Cricket? That is a movie gun but it was never a real gun nor is it based on one (men in black in case anyone was not sure). What about the Lawgiver MK2, that is based on a Beretta 92 also, but it certainly doesnt look realistic as per any firearm today.
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Post by Doc

Importing that like that would be ok Im 99% sure however putting it together and painting it could be viewed as "manufacture of a RIF"

...however how do we define a RIF ...

I think in the eyes of the law this is anything a general member of the public could look at and reasonably assume it was a gun .

A good test of this is ask a woman who does not have too much detailed knowledge of guns if she thinks it could be real .

(bear in mind our coppers can`t tell the difference between a table leg and a firearm !)

DOC
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We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Spencerman

Doc wrote:

A good test of this is ask a woman who does not have too much detailed knowledge of guns if she thinks it could be real .

Are you implying that most women know Ken Livingstone about guns Doc?

Post by Doc

not really but they are an excellent yard stick .

Take my Mrs ..(for a tenner you can keep her ) no seriously , My Mrs has been shooting with me back in the day, handles guns no problem , certainly has no fear of them like the "mags hags" however I bet if I showed her a pic of the blaster and said do you think that could be a real gun ...she`d say yes ..

Things like this are going to be a grey area though ...for example at re-enacting events quite often we will see imperial stormtroopers etc ..I bet if one of them wanted to import a blaster (based on the sterling as we all know)they`d say **** off to anyone saying anything different as they could argue it was to finish off the outfit they had just spent ££££s on.

Whether they could argue this in court is another matter

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by 8ace

DONT PANIC

As we can now buy these

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COLT-PYTHON-357-MAGNUM-LIGHTER-WITH-STAND-BNIB_W0QQitemZ260167942962QQihZ016QQcategoryZ60779QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Or am i missing something

Post by Doc

That wont last long ..the guy actually calls it a replica too ..

I can see some naughty type buying one and boosting up the gas pressure so instead of being shot you can get burnt to death ...lovely

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Doc (Oct 21st 2007)

One of the guys in the group I`m in has just had something stopped by HM customs .

I`ll let you know how this turns out ....

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by Doc (Oct 25th 2007)

I most sincerely apologise if this causes any distress to anyone but its happening.....

http://www.thisishertfordshire.co.uk/news/roundup/display.var.1773181.0.replica_guns_seized_from_collector.php


look mostly like blank guns but its still not good

DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by GZ22

This is a real shame, although I see some common sense prevailed in as much as they describe "an extensive collection" and they only took away "17 of the replica guns".

There's nowt the guy can do if 17 of his collection are 'readily convertible', but good to see that they left the 'safe' ones with him. (Although it doesn't say how many, must have been quite a few though if he's been collecting for 20 years).

Good God Almighty...

Whether it's a comment by a Livingstone wannabe or whatever but it qotes that:

"Specialist CO19 firearms officers found 17 of the guns were exact replicas and could be converted to fire.

The Met said in a statement that "although there was no concern that the owner of the collection posed a threat himself, the firearms that had been identified by officers as susceptible to conversion were retained as a precautionary measure" and will be destroyed."

Now I know we've discussed many, many times that there's no-way on earth to convert a plastic or zinc modelgun to fire live rounds but look at that!
Further reading through the comments posted by readers make interesting reading!
Check out the comments by several American and Australian readers...

Looks like we had all better start investing in lockable cabinets and put everything we have out of sight of snooping passers by.

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Doc

17 handgun replicas is an extensive collection to anti gun types .

Interesting they took them even before this guy committed any sort of crime but as I say before .. the old bill dont like blank firers as they do have the strength to withstand a certain amount of pressure ..... unlike modelguns that can break with the slightest pressure .


DOC
_________________
We need guns...lots of guns....

.... well anything mechanical that can kill people is interesting ...

Post by MadMike

That´s what it is all about. Declare them as

Quote :

susceptible to conversion

and that gives the police the right to seize them. Hard to believe, but it seems okay in respect of public safety to violate citizen´s rights ...

I seem to remember reading something here, a couple of years ago even, about a member whose pfc modelgun had been siezed by the Police as they suspected it to be "convertable".
If I remember right, I think it was an MGC Thompson or something like that.
Rigourous "testing" by the experts found that the odelgun couldn't actually be converted at all, they tried it and broke the thing in the process.
All this took months of course, months of anguish to the law-abiding owner, and all he got back was a box fullof bits!

I might just understand the Police siezing blank firers that actually could be converted to fire live rounds, if such a thing exists, but the article doesn't distinguish if the guy owned blank firers, dummy or pfc models.

If the Police were to turn up here for instance, would they check first to see if my selection consisted of pfc non-convertable models or might they just sieze the bloody lot "in case they fell into wrong hands ... as it's impossible for a police officer to tell if the gun pointing at him is a toy or a real one"?

Seems the Police were alerted by concerned citizens as the owner had his collection on display around the house.
Either they were in the window or somebody that knows him shopped him then.

Make sure your models are out of sight guys, who knows who might shop us!

Cerwyn
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Hobby collector of mainly WW2 era uniforms, headgear, field equipment and replica weapons.

Post by Phobus

Doc wrote:

I most sincerely apologise if this causes any distress to anyone but its happening.....
http://www.thisishertfordshire.co.uk/news/roundup/display.var.1773181.0.replica_guns_seized_from_collector.php

look mostly like blank guns but its still not good
DOC

I count 6 CO2 pistols and a GAT !!! plus a bunch of UK spec blank firers - cheap ones at that apart from the Browning and maybe the H&K copy ( Rohm 96 ? ) I can,t see what these " readily convertible " guns are ?
Convertible to what pray ? What a joke !! God help us if they get hold of somebody with a Voltran full - auto !!! and if the likes of these models - openly available in shops up until 01-10-2007 are considered verboten , what about more exotic items like MP40 or Stens converted to blank fire ? I know which I would regard as being more " readily convertible " .
A nearly all steel replica with a straight through barrel and exact ( almost ) action to R.S. or a lump of pot metal rodded to the muzzle ??
I expect we will see lots more of stuff like this and in the meantime my local market has plastic airsoft aegs for sale for £25 , and real firearms are used daily in gang shootings .
Did you read that bollocks from the Police chief creaming the media hype . Just once I would love it if someone asked " Could you tell us how many REAL FIREARMS were actually recovered in this operation please ?? "

CARL s